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are we actually cursed?

Please bear in mind that this is ALL idle lunchtime speculation!! LOL

Debating the QB position is.... what could we have done?

Firstly, here's all the Round 1 QB's drafted in the last 4 years.

2015 - Winston, Mariota
2016 - Goff, Wentz, Lynch
2017 - Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson
2018 - Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, Mayfield.

Here's who we got in Rounds 1 and 2 over the same period

2015 - Scherff, (Preston) Smith
2016 - Doctson, Cravens
2017 - Allen, Anderson
2018 - Payne, Guice

Look at the timeline:

2012 - We got RGIII who looked like the 2nd coming!!! Bosh! Jobs a goodun, we're sorted for the next couple of decades. HTTR!

Both RGIII and Kirk sign 4 year deals.

2013 - RGIII doesn't look the same... Plays 13/16. Kirk Plays a bit and looks ok as a backup.

2014 - RGIII definitely isn't the future. Him, Kirk and Colt share the games out 7/5/4

At this point RGIII Is benched and gone. We know they're not picking up his option. Jury is out on the other two.

2015 - Kirk is the future, still under contract. His numbers aren't bad and holds pretty much all the cards negotiation wise.

Probably too early to consider drafting... and I wouldn't give up Scherff and Smith for Winston or Mariota.

2016 - First Kirk Franchise tag. He's cool playing under it, all the leverage is now his.

At this point this is probably where we should have looked towards either drafting his successor or seeing if we could trade him.
Was this mismanaged? The low ball offer was where the seeds of his discord were planted, but did we know enough about him at that point to make a big money offer?

And consider the draft.

The top drafted QB's were Goff, Wentz and Paxton Lynch.
Lynch is gone as a starter, Goff looked awful in his first couple of years but has been brought alive by Sean McVay this year. You could say that Wentz was the surest of the bunch.
He went as the Number 2 pick... So what would the Redskins needed to give up to get him?
We don't know what the trade demands to get up that high in the draft were, but we took Josh Doctson in 1 and Sua Cravens in 2. I'd make that trade.

2016 was probably the sweet spot to grab a high ranked QB. I'd give up Doctson and Sua for Wentz. But As we know, QB's are a roll of the dice. What if we'd taken Lynch instead? Or Goff but not been able to develop him?
At this point it was probably too early to know EXACTLY how the Cousins drama would play out, but the writing was on the wall.
2016 was probably the missed opportunity.

2017 - Another Franchise tag for Kirk. At this point he seemed happy to know he'd get the big contract money on a year by year basis. He just had to gamble on not getting hurt and not be dreadful.

Top QB's this year were Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson. Trubisky shows flashes on a Bears team being carried by it's D. Watson doesn't look anything special so far. Mahomes is the real deal.

Issue here, is that in order to trade up and grab them, or even to just grab them if they fell to is in the first round, we'd be giving up Allen and Anderson. Allen especially has been instrumental in turning our D around. Anderson maybe not as impactful at first but this year seems to be turning the corner. These guys will only get better over the years, especially if they make a jump like Ioannidas did. So would we want to give up either or both of these guys to trade up to grab either of those 3 QB's?
There were certainly trade partners to get up in the top 10, San Fran or Tennessee might have let us sneak into the Top 5! and considering Trubisky was the top man taken we could have had Mahomes.
But was he such a certainty at that point that we'd give up Allen and Anderson for him?

2018 - Kirk is gone, team trades for Alex Smith.

In the draft were Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Jackson and Mayfield. No one truly knows if any of them will pan out.
We grabbed Payne and Guice, the latter was unfortunately injured and out for the season early.

There's no way we were getting into the top 3 in the draft, no way those teams were giving up those picks. Possibly number 4 would have been the best we could do. Which means we'd get the pick of Rosen, Allen or Jackson.
Not sure I'd trade any of them for Payne and Guice.

And if we had... We'd probably still have a busted up O-Line with Colt playing behind it. Possibly we'd get Guice still depends on how far he fell. We could grab him in the 3rd. Maybe.
Peterson might still be here, but our D would be missing Payne as a running mate to Allen.

Personally I'm HAPPY that we spent drafts over the last 5 or 6 years addressing the lines. Especially the D. I think these two things are fundamental and set us up for the future.
Hopefully Guice will show why he was so highly rated next year, I'm hoping he's at least as good as Peterson. (Wouldn't mind him staying too if we can figure it out, love to see him mentoring Guice!)

So drafting a QB was out for me. I don't think we were in the right position while Cousins kept us average, and we would likely have lost the players that have turned out D around.

Trades then...

I like Alex... but I think it was possibly the wrong trade. I hate that we lost Fuller, I think with Norman, Dunbar and Fuller back there and assuming we still made a move for Clinton-Dix... we'd have a solid pass defence. LB would then probably have been an area of need on D this draft.
On the flip side of the ball, we need WR's. I think Doctson might just work out after all, he's looking better lately, and I still have a sneaky suspicion that Quinn will be great for us. I wish they'd teach Chesson to catch as his speed down field would take the top off a D.

But we need a QB to orchestrate, and he needs to be young enough to be a Franchise man going forwards... problem is I don't know who is available out there that we could have got as it was clear that Kirk wasn't coming back.

A quick google gives me...

Garopolo (Yes, but how much would we have given up?), Tyrod Taylor (Nope), McCarron (Nope), Glennon (Nope Nope), Hoyer (Nopeitty Nope), Geno Smith (Nope), Fitzpatrick (LOL), Barkley (Nope), Keenum (Nope), Bradford (Hmmm) or Bridgewater (Possibly)

Any of those appeal?

Of course there are far more moving parts over the years, feel free to throw in speculation of your own :D

(I was really bored over lunch!)
 
wow! lotta work there.

my response lacks depth and is...well.....glib: it's a sport where folks are paid to succeed. other teams succeed. cursed or incompetent...we are rank amatuers when it comes to building a championship team...which everyone knows starts with the QB position.

by any measure, our organization's leadership (all the way to the top) is overpaid. until the entire superstructure is repaired/replaced we should not expect different outcomes.
 
Allen, Payne and Settle in the middle. Very important base for the defense.
Something we have not had in decades. Now it is time to build around them.
Oh and the Greek!
 
Allen, Payne and Settle in the middle. Very important base for the defense.
Something we have not had in decades. Now it is time to build around them.
Oh and the Greek!

Yeah, having seen what Settle did in pre-season, going in I thought he'd take over for Ionnides, but Ionnides is the better of the 2. Not much drop off with Settle in there, it just looks like Settle is not as agile as Matt.
 
Yeah, having seen what Settle did in pre-season, going in I thought he'd take over for Ionnides, but Ionnides is the better of the 2. Not much drop off with Settle in there, it just looks like Settle is not as agile as Matt.

How long has it been since we have not had Dline on or towards the top of the todo list?
If Dix and DJ can remain our tandem we can start focusing on corner and Ilbs. Not sure what we do with Preston Smith. He is coming on again but might not be able to afford him.
 
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Our only curse is having a subpar head coach, and inferior offensive assistant coaches.

I said it before the season started, and I find no reason to change.

If we don't make the playoffs, Gruden should be fired. And I don't care if the entire opening day roster winds up on injured reserve.
 
Yeah, having seen what Settle did in pre-season, going in I thought he'd take over for Ionnides, but Ionnides is the better of the 2. Not much drop off with Settle in there, it just looks like Settle is not as agile as Matt.

Settle being buried on the bench all season long is just another indictment to how bad this staff mismanages it's personnel.

He should've been in the Dline rotation all year to help keep guys like Payne and Allen fresh but the staff seemed hell bent on burning those guys out before the season was over.
 
Smoot's way out of this was pretty clear yesterday. Run Colt into the ground next year and go 2-14 to get Tua.
His quote of the day.
Sometimes you got to stink to be great. Lol
 
Smoot's way out of this was pretty clear yesterday. Run Colt into the ground next year and go 2-14 to get Tua.
His quote of the day.
Sometimes you got to stink to be great. Lol

I would absolutely love to see Tua in burgundy and gold! That kid is special.

But we're not going 2-14.
 
I would absolutely love to see Tua in burgundy and gold! That kid is special.

But we're not going 2-14.

No problem. We got draft picks to give up!
Yes I am afraid of what Snyder would give up.
 
Did you know it happened 33 years to the day, after Joey's injury ?
And the final score of both games was the same ?

And Joey tweeted that it was exactly like his injury.

Not only that, but both LT and JJ are the only two players to have won DPOY 3 times. Scary coinkidinks...
 
Besides the above, here's some more coincidences, that I heard about

- Both sack injuries happened at the 40.
- His LT, Jacoby was out with injury that game as Trent was in this game.
- Both were right leg injuries, involving complete breaks of both the fibula and tibula
- He has a nephew named Alex Smith who is 33 years old.
- Romeo Crennel was an assistant coach on the opposing sideline of both games.
- Theismann finished his season with 301 attempts; Smith entered Sunday's game with 301 attempts

Whoa. Okay, I don't like this thread anymore-
 
I would absolutely love to see Tua in burgundy and gold! That kid is special.

A lot of people said that very thing about RG3 before that year's draft. And we know how that turned out. Before the flames, I know they're nowhere alike in terms of skillsets, but if TT doesn't have anybody to throw to he's not gonna pull W's out of his butt. His targets at Bama are better across the board than anybody they face, period. That wouldn't be the case here. Not by a far piece.
 
A lot of people said that very thing about RG3 before that year's draft. And we know how that turned out. Before the flames, I know they're nowhere alike in terms of skillsets, but if TT doesn't have anybody to throw to he's not gonna pull W's out of his butt. His targets at Bama are better across the board than anybody they face, period. That wouldn't be the case here. Not by a far piece.


Not sure how you can even compare Tua with RG3, and you haven't been here long enough to know I was the only one on the site who did not want RG3 and thought the trade was wrong.

RG3 played college football like a superior athlete playing the QB position coupled with a reckless abandon to win. Tua is a QB playing the QB position who knows how to win without being reckless. He will be a successful QB in the NFL.
 
Not sure how you can even compare Tua with RG3

Read it again. I didn't.

and you haven't been here long enough to know I was the only one on the site who did not want RG3 and thought the trade was wrong.

I haven't been here long enough, but at another site that will go unmentioned (ES) I was one of the few detractors of his in those days. I can prove that I thought Russell Wilson was the better QB and should have been our pick. Oh, and don't forget, this version of me is a re-roll. So I may have been around a little longer than you might think. :wink:

RG3 played college football like a superior athlete playing the QB position coupled with a reckless abandon to win. Tua is a QB playing the QB position who knows how to win without being reckless. He will be a successful QB in the NFL.

No argument here. My assertion stands nonetheless. Without skilled position players he will not magically produce wins at the next level. Last time I checked, very very few players ever have-and those only intermittently at that.
 
Read it again. I didn't.



I haven't been here long enough, but at another site that will go unmentioned (ES) I was one of the few detractors of his in those days. I can prove that I thought Russell Wilson was the better QB and should have been our pick. Oh, and don't forget, this version of me is a re-roll. So I may have been around a little longer than you might think. :wink:



No argument here. My assertion stands nonetheless. Without skilled position players he will not magically produce wins at the next level. Last time I checked, very very few players ever have-and those only intermittently at that.

Yeah, first thing I want to emphasize is that duration of membership has nothing to do with quality of the individual, so I hope that was not implied. I just was making the statement...not attacking your length of membership. I know how that site was when I got there...entirely different than the full blown welcome I have had here since day one.

Regardless, I think we're mostly on the same page...the only comparison I saw was that I was speaking highly of Tua as others did of RG3, but I'm not sure why you brought Griffin into the mix other than to say Tua might be a bust. Truth be told, that's correct, but that kid did something in the 2nd half of a national championship game last year few could have imagined, much less done. And all indications from his first season as a starter, have shown he's on target to be pretty special.

You're making much the same argument that I've made about Alex Smith, and the truth is it goes for most QB's. However, there are great ones who have the knack to make player around them better, and then there is Alex Smith who needs players to make him better. I don't think Tua falls in that class. I am not sure Alabama is the same team with Jalen Hurt starting...I think the offense falls back into a one dimensional team, and good defenses stop them like they did last year. I think Alabama is as good as they are this year because Tua makes them better...not that they aren't top 5 to begin with...just that he makes them almost unstoppable.
 
Yeah, first thing I want to emphasize is that duration of membership has nothing to do with quality of the individual, so I hope that was not implied. I just was making the statement...not attacking your length of membership. I know how that site was when I got there...entirely different than the full blown welcome I have had here since day one.

Regardless, I think we're mostly on the same page...the only comparison I saw was that I was speaking highly of Tua as others did of RG3, but I'm not sure why you brought Griffin into the mix other than to say Tua might be a bust. Truth be told, that's correct, but that kid did something in the 2nd half of a national championship game last year few could have imagined, much less done. And all indications from his first season as a starter, have shown he's on target to be pretty special.

You're making much the same argument that I've made about Alex Smith, and the truth is it goes for most QB's. However, there are great ones who have the knack to make player around them better, and then there is Alex Smith who needs players to make him better. I don't think Tua falls in that class. I am not sure Alabama is the same team with Jalen Hurt starting...I think the offense falls back into a one dimensional team, and good defenses stop them like they did last year. I think Alabama is as good as they are this year because Tua makes them better...not that they aren't top 5 to begin with...just that he makes them almost unstoppable.

Well said brother. I did not take offense at anything implied or otherwise, so stand easy on that one. I suppose it could be inferred that invoking RG3 meant I was suggesting Tua could be a bust. He very well could be. He plays in a spread, not a pro-set offense, and is surrounded by spectacularly gifted athletes. In RG3's case it was more scheme and conference, I believe, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Tua turn out to be the next Mariota. Then again, if he turns out to be more like the next Mahomes, that wouldn't surprise me either. I am no expert, I just play one on tv.
 
Not a curse. I don't believe in that sort of thing.

Poorly coached? Maybe, but more discipline is needed throughout the team.
Poor front office? Maybe, but Smith and Williams are good.
Poor medical staff and trainers? Definitely.
 
It's definitely feeling like we are.

The only two QB's to break legs in the league this year? Both Skins? What are the odds?

Is it the Snyder curse? Or the team-name curse?

So here's a hypothetical question.

In order to lift the curse would you....

a) accept a name change as long as the Burgundy and gold colour scheme stayed in effect and the name was acceptable?

b) chip into a GoFundMe to hire an assassin?

Purely hypothetical. :D
 

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