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Game 10 - Texans. Just win ugly, baby.

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  1. #1
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    Default Patrick Peterson Question

    With him wanting out of Arizona and us truly in need of an opposite threatening CB am I the only one who would give up our 1st round pick next year since some early mocks have us drafting a CB....we could put Quinton on the slot receiver.

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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Dude - this is his 8th NFL season. No way in hell I'd give up anything like a first round pick for him.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    I didn't realize its been that long...damn, I'm getting old.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Yeah, he and Josh Norman are the same person at this point...Peterson probably getting a little more credit around here than Norman. I would not give up anything more than a 3rd and possible late round pick with potential to be a round or 2 better based on performance.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    3rd round or worse for him. They need to keep building the team through the draft. Impact players are generally found in the 1st 2 rounds. After that, the good teams find the diamonds in the rough. So yeah, Nothing more than a 3rd for him, but even that I think is too much.


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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    I'd give a 3rd rounder to the Colts for Ryan Grant.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    I am not in favor of trading for a 30 year old cornerback at this point giving up a high pick, but Peterson is WORLDS better than Josh Norman ever has been.

    Peterson has been one of the top cover corners in the NFL for the past 5-6 years, Norman was a zone corner covering a space in their defense he was never a one on one guy matching up on the outside.

    If the Redskins were further ahead in their build-up (ie where the Rams or Vikings are now) then I would perhaps gamble a high pick on Peterson to get us over the hump.

    But the Redskins have too many other areas to improve before we can legitimately compete roster for roster with a team like the Rams or Chiefs or Patriots.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Agree with BD. Here's the thing guys... criticize Gruden and Allen all you want (and some of that's deserved), but we have seen a major organizational shift philosophically during their tenures. We no longer shed draft picks left and right. We not only keep existing picks, we stockpile picks and use them in the draft. We have more young talent acquired during the past 4-5 seasons than we've had in decades. Trading picks - even 4th-7th rounders - for players in their late 20's and early 30's is a terrible idea. It doesn't matter who that player is - it's a bad idea if for no other reason than we are giving up a key asset for a player who can contribute only for a few years. It doesn't matter if those few years represent a major upgrade. We need to use picks on young talent that potentially can contribute for a decade. We are a competitive team now almost entirely because we have kept our picks and used them. That's a winning long-term strategy and we need to show discipline by continuing that practice without exception.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Agree with BD. Here's the thing guys... criticize Gruden and Allen all you want (and some of that's deserved), but we have seen a major organizational shift philosophically during their tenures. We no longer shed draft picks left and right. We not only keep existing picks, we stockpile picks and use them in the draft. We have more young talent acquired during the past 4-5 seasons than we've had in decades. Trading picks - even 4th-7th rounders - for players in their late 20's and early 30's is a terrible idea. It doesn't matter who that player is - it's a bad idea if for no other reason than we are giving up a key asset for a player who can contribute only for a few years. It doesn't matter if those few years represent a major upgrade. We need to use picks on young talent that potentially can contribute for a decade. We are a competitive team now almost entirely because we have kept our picks and used them. That's a winning long-term strategy and we need to show discipline by continuing that practice without exception.
    Not always and like all other aspects of player acquisition, it has to be done correctly. You think the Patriots made a mistake going after Josh Gordon? Nope! Did the Cowboys make a mistake giving up their 1st round pick for Amari Cooper? Probably. Perfect example to support you theory in Dallas, but debunk it in New England.

    There is nothing wrong with a trade for a player who can contribute for 3-4 years. That's about the life you'll get out of most players, even rookies unless they are good and then you're guaranteed 5 years. But if you can pick up a player of Patrick Peterson's ability for 2-3 years of service for a 3rd,4th,or 5th round player, or maybe even 2 later round players if there are performance clauses built in, then those types of moves are ok.

    That's part of the problem with this front office, you cannot build a champion through the draft alone, adding only 3rd and 4th tier free agents like Paul Richardson. If you want to be better than the year before at a position of need, a 4th tier guy is not the only asnwer, bring him in WITH Allen Robinson. Make an offer for Josh Gordon that won't kill the future.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Not always and like all other aspects of player acquisition, it has to be done correctly. You think the Patriots made a mistake going after Josh Gordon? Nope! Did the Cowboys make a mistake giving up their 1st round pick for Amari Cooper? Probably. Perfect example to support you theory in Dallas, but debunk it in New England.

    There is nothing wrong with a trade for a player who can contribute for 3-4 years. That's about the life you'll get out of most players, even rookies unless they are good and then you're guaranteed 5 years. But if you can pick up a player of Patrick Peterson's ability for 2-3 years of service for a 3rd,4th,or 5th round player, or maybe even 2 later round players if there are performance clauses built in, then those types of moves are ok.

    That's part of the problem with this front office, you cannot build a champion through the draft alone, adding only 3rd and 4th tier free agents like Paul Richardson. If you want to be better than the year before at a position of need, a 4th tier guy is not the only asnwer, bring him in WITH Allen Robinson. Make an offer for Josh Gordon that won't kill the future.
    The Patriots are unique (and I think you would agree) because they have the combination of probably the best QB in the history of the NFL, and one of the greatest head coaches. That covers up a lot of questionable decisions. So yes - I do think the Josh Gordon trade was a terrible move. And yes - the Cowboys made a mistake giving up a 1st rounder for Cooper - not because Cooper isn't *worth* a first rounder, but because, by definition, you are mortgaging years of potential contribution from that first rounder you could have drafted with that pick. Of course that position assumes you draft the right people. But if a team doesn't believe it can draft the right players they are pretty much doomed regardless of what they do.

    I'm intentionally overstating things - because obviously, most trades that occur will involve picks. Player for player trades are relatively rare. And I'm not really saying the Redskins should never make a trade. But I am saying that I favor an extremely conservative approach in giving up ANY picks for veteran players. Sure - NFL careers are short. That's why not burning picks to trade for players who've already burned their most productive years is so important.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    The Patriots are unique (and I think you would agree) because they have the combination of probably the best QB in the history of the NFL, and one of the greatest head coaches. That covers up a lot of questionable decisions. So yes - I do think the Josh Gordon trade was a terrible move.
    You're right...it is a special arrangement, but having a great head coach and a great QB does not make a trade for another player any worse or better. Since they traded for Josh Gordon, that offense has opened up without their best receiver producing much, Gronkowski. Just having Gordon on the field makes them better because it opens things up for a rookie RB to rush for 100 yards in 3 straight games, then have an average back in this league get open for a couple TD's and the performance he had last week. It's not just that they have Brady and Belichek...it's that they're not afraid to make moves to make the team better, like trading a 5th round pick Josh Gordon who is arguably far better than Amari Cooper.

    Sorry Boone, but if you think a 5th round pick for one of the most dynamic, yes troubled, young WR's in the league was a mistake, I'm not sure what to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I'm intentionally overstating things - because obviously, most trades that occur will involve picks. Player for player trades are relatively rare. And I'm not really saying the Redskins should never make a trade. But I am saying that I favor an extremely conservative approach in giving up ANY picks for veteran players. Sure - NFL careers are short. That's why not burning picks to trade for players who've already burned their most productive years is so important.
    But the extremely conservative approach hasn't produced much more than we've seen with the overzealous trade for a Qb who was bound to be injury plagued, or over pay for someone who just wants a fat paycheck like Fat Al.

    We're still a mediocre team with a head coach still making the same fundamental flaws he's made since day 1. At some point will we see Jay Gruden adjust at the half to score as many points in the 2nd half of games as he did in the 1st half?
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Didn't the draft just give us the best Dline this team has had since Butz,Manley and Mann?

    Hasn't it given us 4/5ths of our starting Oline?

    This team seems on the verge of turning a massive corner. IMO, because they finally started valuing draft picks and actual team building with young guys.



    This team is not one piece away. The next draft will be the first time this team has ever had compensatory picks and now we have folks that want to deal them off at the first hint of a possible turnaround?

    I don't understand why you'd want to return to the Snyderatto way of football operation?
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    Didn't the draft just give us the best Dline this team has had since Butz,Manley and Mann?

    Hasn't it given us 4/5ths of our starting Oline?

    This team seems on the verge of turning a massive corner. IMO, because they finally started valuing draft picks and actual team building with young guys.



    This team is not one piece away. The next draft will be the first time this team has ever had compensatory picks and now we have folks that want to deal them off at the first hint of a possible turnaround?

    I don't understand why you'd want to return to the Snyderatto way of football operation?
    Thanks DP - I was starting to feel soooo alone ...
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    What DP said.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    I don't understand why you'd want to return to the Snyderatto way of football operation?
    This is such a disingenuous statement. No one is advocating anything like Vinny's return. What I am saying, and others who pay attention to the winners in this league, you have to make deals other than the draft. The draft alone will not win championships and I don't know where the **** anyone said return to Vinny because the suggestion that a late round pick given for a quality WR is a viable option in player acquisition.

    To be honest, that **** pisses me off! Don't put words in my mouth! I'm not talking about going out and signing the next Albert Hayensworth or trading 3 first round draft choices for a shitty QB who hasn't played a single down in the NFL!

    If you guys are so friggin blind that you cannot see that Josh Gordon for a 5th round pick was a great trade for the Pats, and would have helped us tremendously with a serious need, then you're simply not as smart as I thought you were. A 5th round pick is worth the risk for a player of his talent!

    Edit: If we were stupid enough to give a 1st round pick for Amari Cooper, then I would expect the argument you're making. But that's not what I said about Gordon or Patrick Peterson.
    Last edited by Elephant; 10-27-18 at 08:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    There will be a couple of really good free agent options next March. The Redskins are one of very few teams who have a good cap situation for 2019 and beyond. They will have $23M in cap space for 2019 and that is before the new cap that is expected to be $14M to $18M beyond what it is now. But let's say the Skins will have $37M in cap space after $14M is added.

    They will likely release two or three players that could generate another $9M to $15M in cap space. So let's put it at $46M for 2019. That will be more than enough to add two or three quality FAs and sign all ten picks.

    About those ten picks. I'd like to keep them. That is a lot of draft capital. The Skins could package the extra third rounder and a fourth rounder and move into the second round. With a first round pick and two second rounders, they could select three quality starters - possibly a solid quarterback for the future. I like those options.

    Even if the Skins don't trade any of their picks, two solid starters can be added and the two third round selections give the team some unique possibilities. A first round talent could slip to them in the third. A second round round talent could slip to them with the second third rounder.

    Solid cap space. Ten picks. Yeah, I like it.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    This is such a disingenuous statement. No one is advocating anything like Vinny's return. What I am saying, and others who pay attention to the winners in this league, you have to make deals other than the draft. The draft alone will not win championships and I don't know where the **** anyone said return to Vinny because the suggestion that a late round pick given for a quality WR is a viable option in player acquisition.

    To be honest, that **** pisses me off! Don't put words in my mouth! I'm not talking about going out and signing the next Albert Hayensworth or trading 3 first round draft choices for a shitty QB who hasn't played a single down in the NFL!

    If you guys are so friggin blind that you cannot see that Josh Gordon for a 5th round pick was a great trade for the Pats, and would have helped us tremendously with a serious need, then you're simply not as smart as I thought you were. A 5th round pick is worth the risk for a player of his talent!

    Edit: If we were stupid enough to give a 1st round pick for Amari Cooper, then I would expect the argument you're making. But that's not what I said about Gordon or Patrick Peterson.
    The way I see it - Josh Gordon is a head case, previous substance abuser, and 6th year (!) pro who hasn't done shit in the NFL since his 'okay' season in 2012 and his one great season in 2013. Giving up ANY draft pick for him is a total reach. You saying he would 'have helped us tremendously with a serious need' is just flat out opinion. He's had 14 catches for 200 yds in 2018. That's less than Chris-****ing-Thompson has had this year, injuries and all.

    Now maybe that 5th round pick produces less. Then again, maybe not. Certainly not the 'no brainer' you're characterizing it as ...

    That said - I love you and nothing can change that! <3
    Last edited by Boone; 10-27-18 at 08:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    The way I see it - Josh Gordon is a head case, previous substance abuser, and 6th year (!) pro who hasn't done shit in the NFL since his 'okay' season in 2012 and his one great season in 2013. Giving up ANY draft pick for him is a total reach. You saying he would 'have helped us tremendously with a serious need' is just flat out opinion. He's had 14 catches for 200 yds in 2018. That's less than Chris-****ing-Thompson has had this year, injuries and all.

    Now maybe that 5th round pick produces less. Then again, maybe not. Certainly not the 'no brainer' you're characterizing it as ...

    That said - I love you and nothing can change that! <3
    Why not compare him to all of our WR's, not the RB who catches passes out of the backfield because our WR's can't get open? Who is our leading WR? Paul Richardson with exactly 16 catches. Has his presence on the field helped?

    Gordon's presence on the field has helped the NE offense turn things around by simply being on the field...there is verifiable proof of it. So my "opinion" is supported with fact. Have you not seen the Patriots play this year? Because I've seen them play 4 or 5 games before and after...Gordon was exactly what they needed to improve that offense with Gronk hurt and none of the other receivers able to get open.

    Was he a risk? Yeah, you know NE is probably the only team in the NFL that could bring him in and give him the support he needed to succeed. I'm convinced Bruce Allen's open drinking at the Park would be real helpful for a young kid in need of help for substance abuse.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    This is such a disingenuous statement. No one is advocating anything like Vinny's return. What I am saying, and others who pay attention to the winners in this league, you have to make deals other than the draft. The draft alone will not win championships and I don't know where the **** anyone said return to Vinny because the suggestion that a late round pick given for a quality WR is a viable option in player acquisition.

    To be honest, that **** pisses me off! Don't put words in my mouth! I'm not talking about going out and signing the next Albert Hayensworth or trading 3 first round draft choices for a shitty QB who hasn't played a single down in the NFL!

    If you guys are so friggin blind that you cannot see that Josh Gordon for a 5th round pick was a great trade for the Pats, and would have helped us tremendously with a serious need, then you're simply not as smart as I thought you were. A 5th round pick is worth the risk for a player of his talent!

    Edit: If we were stupid enough to give a 1st round pick for Amari Cooper, then I would expect the argument you're making. But that's not what I said about Gordon or Patrick Peterson.
    You're the one advocating trading a draft pick for a guy that's one bad test away from being out of the league, not me.

    Sounds exactly like a Vinny move to me.
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    Default Re: Patrick Peterson Question

    Er ... sorry to de-rail this lively Josh Gordon debate, but didnt we just trade away Fuller and a 3rd round pick for a 34 year-old bus driver QB? On what planet are we no longer trading young for old?


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