Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

Win4us said:

It seems to me atleast the last couple of seasons the Bruce is listening to his scouts, coaches and contract guys. The team is showing a much improved cap restraint and not giving in to ridiculous prices for our fa's. I can't knock the FO at this point in the off-season honestly.

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Don't know how to edit my previous post in Tapatalk but wanted to add, I do like the restraint.


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Gonna have to confirm with the BGO medical team on this one. I've honestly never heard of reopening a scar from like 20 years ago. Is that a thing?

Win4us said:

Gonna have to confirm with the BGO medical team on this one. I've honestly never heard of reopening a scar from like 20 years ago. Is that a thing?

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I have to admit...I wondered that as well

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DieselPwr44 said:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So uh this <a href="https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ByKimberleyA</a> lede sorta makes me wonder who is making the personnel decisions over at 'ol Redskins Park <a href="https://t.co/eHPgNVx1L2">https://t.co/eHPgNVx1L2</a> <a href="https://t.co/zVz0sqi0w4">pic.twitter.com/zVz0sqi0w4</a></p>— Dan Steinberg (@dcsportsbog) <a href="https://twitter.com/dcsportsbog/status/974742554729119745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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We all pretty much know Doug Williams is just more or less a spokesman. Someone to trot out instead of Bruce, who really still plays "the football guy".

Confirmation is just nice once in a while.

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It sounds like they had already had all the discussions in terms of who the best option would be. Allen just went out and got him. Seems like you are just looking for something dead to roll around in DP. Is Bruce Allen an incompetent idiot, or is he the guy who went out and got a capable long-term QB? You can't have it both ways. So now we shift to Doug Williams is the idiot and Allen is the guy pulling the strings? How about we just relish some competency and stop muckraking for a bit?

Boone said:

It sounds like they had already had all the discussions in terms of who the best option would be. Allen just went out and got him. Seems like you are just looking for something dead to roll around in DP. Is Bruce Allen an incompetent idiot, or is he the guy who went out and got a capable long-term QB? You can't have it both ways. So now we shift to Doug Williams is the idiot and Allen is the guy pulling the strings? How about we just relish some competency and stop muckraking for a bit?

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Jay Gruden to @bykimberleya

“I was watching it (Presidential Address on January 30) when [Allen] called and said there's a possibility [of getting Smith.] ‘How do you like him?' And, ‘we're working with Andy Reid to possibly do a deal for him now"

The Smith deal was leaked out of the press the next day (Jan 31).

Now why would Bruce have to call Jay and ask him if he liked Alex Smith if they had already sat around the table the first week of the playoffs and settled on him?

This Front Office tells so many lies that they can't keep their stories straight.

That's not muckraking. That's just :

I guess if it really mattered, at all, there'd be reason to B&M about it.

I just don't see the benefit of being a #NeverAllen .

Ax said:

I guess if it really mattered, at all, there'd be reason to B&M about it.

I just don't see the benefit of being a #NeverAllen .

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Because, as long as he and Snyder run that front office, this team will continue the perpetual mediocrity.

That's all well and good Brian (and DP) - you guys are welcome to that opinion and obviously any Redskins fan can understand feeling that way. I think the point is, when the team is making solid competent moves, and people are still focusing on dysfunction and incompetence (as some of the DC sports mediots continually do), that's called having an agenda.

The idea that potential replacements for Cousins hadn't been discussed, at every level, ad nauseam by Gruden, the scouting staff, Allen, Doug Williams - it's just flat out ridiculous. Of course those conversations took place, rankings were created, and a plan to pursue specific players was put in place. That it was Bruce Allen that drove the actual signing, is that really something controversial? We know from previous experience that Gruden isn't particularly careful with his words, and reading into a phrase he blurted out, for me anyway, is just ridiculous. I'm relatively happy with what we've done so far this offseason. If we had been (or still are) able to grab a solid DL I guy I would be extremely satisfied.

Elephant said:

Because, as long as he and Snyder run that front office, this team will continue the perpetual mediocrity.

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Well, I figured the only reason you hung around here anyway was because my perpetual awesomeness.

As Boone said, if the moves being made turn out to be good ones, (and I agree with him that they look good here in March) what difference does it make who gets the credit?

Gruden's input didn't have to be anything more than a, "Hey Bruce, I don't care what you gotta do, but I need to know who the hell my QB is gonna be for more then 1 year."
I have no doubt that available options were discussed by them all, and like a draft board, a QB board was set up. It's then up to the FO to make it happen. Starting at the top and working down until you land someone. So yeah, he may well have not known who they were able to get that night , but you can bet your ass he was in on the list. And quite frankly, may have felt getting Smith was a longshot, due to other interested suitors.

But good Lord man, this #NeverAllen/Snyder meme almost seems as "Snowflake-ish" as the #NeverYouKnowWhat'ers.

It would be easy to change the narrative that this organization ‘enjoys'.

Win.

That's right. Best wart remover, ever.

Ax said:

That's right. Best wart remover, ever.

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Umm...a little more information than we needed.

It's simple, and Chris hit the nail on the head...win, and you prove the naysayers wrong. So far, consistent mediocrity is what I've seen from a Bruce Allen leadership after 10 years, so that's what I will come to expect the next 10. The body of evidence is there to support it.

I was chatting with Keim on twitter, and he seems to agree with me. The approach the Eagles took 2 years ago when the Eagles went all in on both the draft and FA paid off. They had some talent, but more holes than not and decided to build around what their coach wanted in one season. Many of us laughed at them, myself included because it seemed so much like our past moves, but they were much smarter about it.

Truth is, we cannot build a Super Bowl Champ by simply trying to be frugal while acquiring FA's and build in the draft when this team is so bereft of talent. We don't have a lot of talent and the off-season moves we've made so far seem simply lateral...we didn't get better with the talent we've acquired, although I think Smith is a better QB than Cousins. And with Gruden's tenure getting more and more like skating on thin ice, they need to make moves for him now.

I joke and taunt a lot, I'm an asshole, what can I say. But we've all watched the same thing...how can you, or Boone, or any of the other perpetual optimists seriously think that Bruce Allen can help us become true contenders, when he hasn't done so for 10 years. A good GM would only need 5?

Boone said:

That's all well and good Brian (and DP) - you guys are welcome to that opinion and obviously any Redskins fan can understand feeling that way. I think the point is, when the team is making solid competent moves, and people are still focusing on dysfunction and incompetence (as some of the DC sports mediots continually do), that's called having an agenda.

The idea that potential replacements for Cousins hadn't been discussed, at every level, ad nauseam by Gruden, the scouting staff, Allen, Doug Williams - it's just flat out ridiculous. Of course those conversations took place, rankings were created, and a plan to pursue specific players was put in place. That it was Bruce Allen that drove the actual signing, is that really something controversial? We know from previous experience that Gruden isn't particularly careful with his words, and reading into a phrase he blurted out, for me anyway, is just ridiculous. I'm relatively happy with what we've done so far this offseason. If we had been (or still are) able to grab a solid DL I guy I would be extremely satisfied.

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Solid confident moves? I like the Alex Smith trade, it was difficult to see such a talented young CB go, but we were losing Cousins and needed a viable plan. Unfortunately, that was a move necessitated by poor handling of Cousins in the first place...our FO bumbled that, so they had to make up for it.

Other than the Smith move, please tell me what has been solid that isn't matched by terrible over the Allen tenure. proof is in the pudding guys, Allen has done nothing in 10 years to support any benefit of the doubt, yet you give it to him.

Elephant said:

Solid confident moves? I like the Alex Smith trade, it was difficult to see such a talented young CB go, but we were losing Cousins and needed a viable plan. Unfortunately, that was a move necessitated by poor handling of Cousins in the first place...our FO bumbled that, so they had to make up for it.

Other than the Smith move, please tell me what has been solid that isn't matched by terrible over the Allen tenure. proof is in the pudding guys, Allen has done nothing in 10 years to support any benefit of the doubt, yet you give it to him.

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I'm not getting dragged into the hand-wringing 'we're doomed forever' nonsense.

I'm addressing the ridiculous criticism regarding *how* we managed to turn a totally shitty QB situation (the 'how we got there' blame isn't the topic at hand) into one where we have a Pro Bowler who wants to be a Redskin for the next 3-5 years under center. The idea that the acquisition is emblematic of Redskins FO dysfunction is silly imho.

Looking at the NFC East so far in free agency and trades, the Eagles and Redskins have been fairly busy while Dallas has been unusually quiet.

But the team to look at and question what they are doing is the Giants. This is a team coming off a 3-13 season with a roster dotted with some aging veterans. And yet in free agency, the Giants seem to be doubling down on the ability for 37 year old qb Eli Manning and Co. to make a competitive comeback in 2018, which to me is a big mistake and misreading of where the division is going.

The Giants just signed 29 year old Nate Solder to the largest OL contract in the NFL to play LT. Here is a team that had literally no viable NFL starters on the OL at the close of the season. To take a guy this age and project out his guarantees you can see the Giants are going to be hurting in a couple of years. And what about those 4 other OL positions, with Westburg signing in SF?

Then NY goes out and signs 31 year old running back Jonathan Stewart to a 3 year deal. Really? A 31 year old back on a team that finished 3-13 and not 13-3? I could understand the Eagles signing Stewart as a complementary back for 2018 but the Giants?

Running backs are in the prime from ages 24-28. The thought of giving a guy this age starter's wages to me just a mistake.

Gettleman is fooling himself if he thinks building this way is going to yield consistent results.

The Eagles are light years ahead of the Giants even with these moves (and perhaps others to come). Dallas is better, Washington is better and both Dallas and Washington have better rosters 1-53.

New York is a fourth place club, third at best.

Given the fall to 3-13 in 2017, it was the perfect opportunity with the #2 overall selection to rebuild the club from the ground up and take some lumps getting rid of some large contracts for veterans you really don't need to select and promote a new, younger core moving forward.

So far the Giants have my vote for worst offseason to date with a disconnect between Gettleman and the FO and the place of the Giants in the NFC East ending the 2017 season.

Elephant said:

I joke and taunt a lot, I'm an asshole, what can I say. But we've all watched the same thing...how can you, or Boone, or any of the other perpetual optimists seriously think that Bruce Allen can help us become true contenders, when he hasn't done so for 10 years. A good GM would only need 5?

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Finally - something we agree on! J/K - you know I love you and DP and the other Apocalypse Now-ers. You actually think I'm 'perpetually optimistic'? Wow. I would say that I have a belief that circumstances can change, improve, and develop. The humans involved here are not cartoon characters - they really are humans. They aren't demons and monsters. They are humans. It's true that until this organization shows it can field a perennial winner, they have failed. That doesn't equate (for me anyway) to a static, unchangeable situation where arriving at that place is an impossibility. If that's 'perpetual optimism' ...

Boone said:

I'm not getting dragged into the hand-wringing 'we're doomed forever' nonsense.

I'm addressing the ridiculous criticism regarding *how* we managed to turn a totally shitty QB situation (the 'how we got there' blame isn't the topic at hand) into one where we have a Pro Bowler who wants to be a Redskin for the next 3-5 years under center. The idea that the acquisition is emblematic of Redskins FO dysfunction is silly imho.

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But it is...we wouldn't have been there in the first place if Snyder and Allen hadn't forced Shanahan to trade the future for Griffin, then draft his backup of the future in Cousins, then not give Cousins the reigns immediately after they saw they'd made a mistake. It all goes together.

Look, I remember when Shanahan was at the Senior Bowl that season and had the opportunity to coach Russel Wilson. He raved about Wilson...glowing endorsements for the young QB. I would bet my house that Shanahan would much rather have had Wilson than give up so much to get Griffin. But Snyder wanted the shiny new car, so Allen made it happen. So fast forward to Cousins finally getting his shot, we have the opportunity to lock him up for 5-7 years and our GM is over ruled by the VP of Operations. For 2 more seasons they tag him, looking like fools and hamstringing the HC while those 2 seasons are spent watching the team devolve. Here we are...we needed to trade a quality CB and a 3rd round pick for a good QB, who only brings us slightly more talent at the position.

It all goes together, you cannot look at this through a narrow window to see the FO screwed up and may have gotten themselves out of a deep hole, although the jury is still out on that one. We all know what happened the last time a Pro-Bowl QB was let go by Andy Reid.

And you can call it "doomed forever nonsense" all you want, but the body of evidence supports my misgivings about the future success of this team as long as Bruce Allen is "in charge". 10 years is plenty of time to see what you have, and Bruce Allen has shown it. It does mean he cannot get better, he has had too much time.

Well, Snyder's decision the team HAD to obtain Robert Griffin III despite the lukewarm endorsements of head coach Mike Shanahan and his staff meant if the move failed this team was going to be set back 5 years in terms of developing into a contender.

With the salary cap you simply can't do what teams used to do 20-30 years ago and trade a bevy of high picks for one player.

In the era of 'parity' it is actually better to have 3 or 4 very good players than one star player.

And in our case we traded all of those high picks for a guy that was essentially out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.

To me this was VERY similar to the move Ted Leonsis made to trade for Jaromir Jagr when his GM was on vacation and then gave him the largest contract in NHL history, a move that crippled the franchise for several years and caused the Capitals to tear their team down, have a fire sale, tank and then draft Ovechkin and Backstrom as top 3-5 picks.

When owners get involved in 'driving' football decisions as opposed to discussing decisions the GM/FO have already come up with options for, the team in the long-run is in trouble.

In 2012 the only player to me that was worth trading three #1 picks and a #2 for in the NFL was an already proven Aaron Rodgers who then was only 28 years old.

That much compensation for a rookie who played in a playground offense in college?

Not on your life.

We are specifically discussing whether the Redskins acquisition of Smith and how that went down is further evidence of organizational dysfunction. How we got to the need to acquire Smith is a different topic - I'm not sure why you can't see that, other than that you want to broaden the topic

And the part where Shanahan is forced to live with moving up to get RG3 against his will is absolute, total conjecture. It may be true, and it may also be a total fabrication. Yeah, given how things turned out, if I were Shanahan, I'd sure as hell be selling the idea that I had nothing to do with making that deal. And we all know that Mike Shanahan has no history in making all of his bad decisions someone else's fault, right? Let's assume you are right that the Griffin deal was all Danny Boy's doing. If it had been Gruden who was head coach at that time, the narrative would be all about what a weak and incompetent HC he was to have allowed himself to have been railroaded. You know that's true. Personally - I think the organization was coming off a run of terrible seasons where fans were mounting a public campaign to 'turn in their fan cards'. The team/FO was admittedly desperate to do 2 things:

1) To do whatever it took to acquire a difference-making, true franchise QB in order to finally lay the groundwork for sustained success.
2) Give a beleagured and angry fanbase something to believe in and feel excited about.

I don't think either of those 2 things represents pure evil. And honestly - the only real failure in that entire transaction was that they picked the wrong QB.

Boone said:

I don't think either of those 2 things represents pure evil. And honestly - the only real failure in that entire transaction was that they picked the wrong QB.

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I think this is where we diverge...I do not see anything that Allen of Snyder do as "evil"...simply incompetent. And the transaction was the problem, we could have had the correct QB in the 2nd round without giving away the farm.

As for the Smith move, again...I think it is important when discussing the competency of our FO to discuss why it was necessary to make that trade in the first place. The move doesn't live in a vacuum, it was made because mistakes were made for the previous 9 years. You're absolutely correct...they are human, but that does not eliminate the fact that those human beings are not well-equipped to create champions. They simply aren't. Snyder has had 20 years and Allen is going on year 10. That is more than enough time to build a champion, but they haven't.