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  1. #301
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Bram Weinstein said it best imho... you have to give something to get something. More importantly, if the something you are trying to get is an experienced Pro Bowl level QB, you're going ot have to give something very good.

    Well, I might have said it even better ...Wednesday, in the other thread about the 2018 QB, I was responding about the idea that it was a stupid trade because we gave up a good player

    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    Well, typically trading partners are only going to want "good players" in compensation. It's the nature of the business. Doubt they would have jumped on an offer for Lauvao.

    We need to be emotionally prepared to give up something good, to get something good.

    It's just a question of will you be better overall, as a result.
    It's a gamble. The sport is always a gamble. And you take the gambles that appear to work out in your favor, in the BIG PICTURE.
    If all you focus on is losing Fuller, and no other aspect, then of course it's going to feel and look traumatizing.
    How about we all agree to see how the entire thing plays out on the field, and in the standings, before passing final judgment.
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  2. #302

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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Although Fuller had a nice season and could potentially be very, very good, I wouldn’t call him special. Yet.
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  3. #303
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Agreed. But Smith and the Chiefs seemed to fold the minute Travis Kelce went out of the playoff game with an injury and the team up 21-3.

    You have to stop and think to yourself would most proven pro bowl quarterbacks with an 18 point lead at home surrender that entire lead to lose the game without being able to manufacture any other offensive production in almost a half of football?

    That's the same kind of performance we have seen from Kirk in those 'all in' games against the Giants the past 2 seasons and in the home playoff loss to the Packers where after the first quarter the Redskins offense disappeared for all intents and purposes against a Green Bay defense that was not the strength of their football team.

    Will Smith do better here? That's the question. Because with a 1-5 playoff record the past 6 times he has been in the postseason, he has some 'clutch' question marks coming with him from KC.

    I will admit that Smith is not the prototypical 33/34 year old quarterback in that he may be in his 12th season, but because he didn't play for long stretches of his career, his body has taken the pounding of a guy that is perhaps 28 or 29.

    Compare that to Ben Roethlisberger who has won big, but he has also been beaten to a pulp in recent years and at 34/35 appears close to the end of his career.
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  4. #304
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Agreed. But Smith and the Chiefs seemed to fold the minute Travis Kelce went out of the playoff game with an injury and the team up 21-3.

    You have to stop and think to yourself would most proven pro bowl quarterbacks with an 18 point lead at home surrender that entire lead to lose the game without being able to manufacture any other offensive production in almost a half of football?
    Smith didn't surrender an 18 point lead, he's not on defense. What the offense didnt do is extend it. I know, semantics, but in theory with an 18 point lead, the offense should have been able to down the ball every play in the 2nd half and still win the football game. Andy Reid has a funny way of losing in the postseason...


    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    That's the same kind of performance we have seen from Kirk in those 'all in' games against the Giants the past 2 seasons and in the home playoff loss to the Packers where after the first quarter the Redskins offense disappeared for all intents and purposes against a Green Bay defense that was not the strength of their football team.

    Will Smith do better here? That's the question. Because with a 1-5 playoff record the past 6 times he has been in the postseason, he has some 'clutch' question marks coming with him from KC.

    I will admit that Smith is not the prototypical 33/34 year old quarterback in that he may be in his 12th season, but because he didn't play for long stretches of his career, his body has taken the pounding of a guy that is perhaps 28 or 29.

    Compare that to Ben Roethlisberger who has won big, but he has also been beaten to a pulp in recent years and at 34/35 appears close to the end of his career.

    Kirk is 0-1 in the same stretch.. I'll take 10 wins a season over what we've had the last 5 years. Take Kirk and put him in KC, is the team as successful?
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  5. #305
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Because of his downfield arm, I think you will see the Chiefs be more successful in the years to come.

    It may not happen in 2018 as a first-year starter but Mahomes throwing the ball to Hill and Kelce with Hunt running the ball seems like a core that can continue to compete and contend in the AFC West for some time to come.
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  6. #306
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Kinda hard to be

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  7. #307
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    At least it's been hard for the Redskins.

    New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Denver have been putting up some good winning streaks and string of playoff appearances in recent seasons.
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  8. #308
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    ...First off, I totally disagree with the opening assertion that Smith is a less effective version Kirk. Yes, he is older. But he has better pocket awareness. He's better moving around within the pocket. He's a much more decisive runner when he needs to be. I believe he will see more of the field, more often, and find open receivers that Cousins often missed. And that turnovers from the position, both fumbles and int's, will be reduced...
    Agree. Maybe I'm just guzzling the Kool-Aid here but the more I think about this the better I feel. AS is a better fit for Gruden's WCO because I think he's more adept at the timing on shorties and intermediate routes. Not only that, he's definitely better at making something happen with his legs. Age is not necessarily a factor. What is, imo, is how well we protect him and/or provide him with a ground game that has some teeth in it. Fat Rob and Samaje will not get it done; we might need to look at RB in this year's draft.
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  9. #309
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    One thing Smith should benefit from in 2018 is an improved offensive line with all of our starters back healthy.

    The Redskins regular starting offensive line when on the field as a group is much better than what Smith had in front of him in Kansas City.

    If the Redskins resign Spencer Long to play LG and nail that down early then we can focus on getting two skill players on offense, a prime back and a capable lead wide receiver.

    I am figuring the back will come from the draft and the receiver in free agency with the money we recouped from having Smith at $21 or $22M vs. Cousins at $29 or $30M.
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  10. #310
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Not that I necessarily want to go after him, but just out of curiosity and since I don't follow the team much, how good a corner is Kendall's brother Kyle, on the Bears ?
    Wow, literally right after I posted this, I found that he's just become a FA. And statistic-wise, he didn't loook too shabby in 2017.
    Still very young and talented, I wonder why there have been some indications the Bears may not want to bring him back.
    Some are calling for his return though...

    https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-be...turn-112750474

    Fuller played a team-high 1,017 snaps at cornerback this season. He was targeted 119 times, allowing just 61 catches with two touchdowns and two interceptions. Opposing quarterbacks recorded just a 69.0 rating when throwing in his direction in 2017.
    Last edited by Fear The Spear; 02-04-18 at 12:35 AM.
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  11. #311
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Kendall Fuller is worth a late first to second round pick so the compensation for Smith was actually in 'pick-ology' a #1/#2 and a #3 .

    So, it wasn't cheap.
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    A surprise coming this week. I think everyone will like it.
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  13. #313

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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    A surprise in your mock, or a surprise in reality?
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Kendall Fuller is worth a late first to second round pick so the compensation for Smith was actually in 'pick-ology' a #1/#2 and a #3 .

    So, it wasn't cheap.
    Oh come on - you're gonna float that idea too? I'll counter that by declaring that with the 3rd round compensatory pick, the Redskins find the next Tom Brady.

    I win.
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  15. #315
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    All I am saying is that the compensation for Smith looks like a bit less to some folks when they see a #3 pick and a 'young' player.

    But when you put it in the stark terms of what a player at Fuller's age and ability translates to (#1 or high #2 pick) and you add it to a #3 it sets things in better perspective.

    Look, the deal is done. I think as fans we were allowed our few days of back and forth about whether it was good or bad. I am not continuing the debate about whether we should send Smith back

    But I think some folks are giving the organization a pass because we get the comp pick and credit the team for moving quickly to address the qb situation.

    That is only true if you are looking at 2018 in a vacuum waking up on January 1.

    If the Redskins had been this decisive back in 2016 or 2017 we would not have been in this situation to begin with and would have had Fuller AND another quarterback not named Cousins either through the draft, trade or free agency already on the squad ready to go.
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    All I am saying is that the compensation for Smith looks like a bit less to some folks when they see a #3 pick and a 'young' player.

    But when you put it in the stark terms of what a player at Fuller's age and ability translates to (#1 or high #2 pick) and you add it to a #3 it sets things in better perspective.

    Look, the deal is done. I think as fans we were allowed our few days of back and forth about whether it was good or bad. I am not continuing the debate about whether we should send Smith back

    But I think some folks are giving the organization a pass because we get the comp pick and credit the team for moving quickly to address the qb situation.

    That is only true if you are looking at 2018 in a vacuum waking up on January 1.

    If the Redskins had been this decisive back in 2016 or 2017 we would not have been in this situation to begin with and would have had Fuller AND another quarterback not named Cousins either through the draft, trade or free agency already on the squad ready to go.
    Fair enough - I hear you on most of that. My point that we could hit on a gem with a compensatory pick stands. As does the obvious argument that to get something, you have to give something. I am giving the organization some credit for being decisive. It's fair to criticise what got us to this point, but it's not relevant to the overall assessment of what they did this past week. Once you are in a situation, it's about doing your best to get out of that situation. I think they did that. And the idea that we somehow got totally screwed by trading a promising (and that's all he is to date) slot corner for a QB with Smith's resume - sorry, but I think it's overwrought.
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  17. #317
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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post

    You have to stop and think to yourself would most proven pro bowl quarterbacks with an 18 point lead at home surrender that entire lead to lose the game without being able to manufacture any other offensive production in almost a half of football?
    And you have to take into consideration the game Andy Reid was calling once Kelce went out...we've seen this far more from Reid than we have from Smith.

    That does not mean Smith is exempt from blame, just that I am not sold on his inability as I am the bumbling of yet another important game in the post-season by an Andy Reid team.
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  18. #318

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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Kendall Fuller is worth a late first to second round pick so the compensation for Smith was actually in 'pick-ology' a #1/#2 and a #3 .

    So, it wasn't cheap.
    Fuller was taken in the third round. He started in the slot, not outside. We just traded for a perennial pro bowl QB and gave up a third round slot corner who has had one pretty good (not great, pretty good) year - a starter for all of one season.
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  19. #319

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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    A surprise in your mock, or a surprise in reality?
    It's a surprise.
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  20. #320

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    Default Re: Free Agency, Mock Drafts, Camps, Roster Predictions, 2018

    I find it nearly impossible to believe that any team would give a 1 or a high 2 for Fuller in a stand alone deal. Maybe if he were a left tackle.

    I don’t care what his Madden rating was.
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