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View Poll Results: Who do you like - Redskins or Vikings?

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  1. #21

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    If you were watching the game yesterday with a friend that was a sports fan, but not a NFL fan, would they be able to easily identify which qb makes 23.9m and which one makes 1.9m?
    Yep. And I have mixed feelings about what Kirk says after these kinds of losses (specifically ones in which he himself has made major mistakes or missed opportunities that may have changed the result). On the one hand, I like that he seems to have a short memory which I think helps him not to have 'stretches' of games where he plays poorly. I also like his belief (stated in yesterday's post-game presser) that they every game is a 'desperate situation'. The problem is, the performance doesn't match the belief. In some ways, I'd rather hear 'I screwed up' or 'this loss is on me - I didn't get it done'. We rarely hear that from him. Saying '30 points is enough' when had you not made major mistakes and/or failed to convert numerous opportunities you could have had 44 - that's just unacceptable to me. It reflects a certain non-chalance that I don't care for, and I think it's one of the reasons people question both whether Kirk can ever be an 'Aaron Rodgers' kind of QB/leader and whether or not he is really excited about being a Redskin. I'd much prefer to see a pissed off/emotional/upset QB after a disappointing loss like yesterday's than that calm, reasoned, even keel shit we always see with Kirk. Maybe none of this matters, but as a fan, I have some issues with it.
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  2. #22

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    When you have a rigid, system coach, unwilling or unable to adjust that system for the many different situations that teams face, this is the result.

    Flashes of brilliance, too often followed by incompetence. Shades of Norv.

    I see Pryor's failure to contribute, as a failure of the coaching staff. On a supposedly superior team, with a supposedly superior QB, we can't get shit out of him.
    I see the piss poor running game as a failure of the staff to teach proper running technique's. Gruden's disdain for the run, regardless of the mouth time he gives it, is why after all this time they have a JV rushing attack.

    Add to that an average QB, and here we are, again.

    No, we're not out of it. But we clearly entered the "we need a miracle" part of the season. Yeah, there's faith we can pull a couple unexpected wins out. But it's just as likely, if not more likely, that 2017 is another wasted year.

    And I know today might not be the best time to judge. But as of today, I think Norv Gruden and Crook Cousins, need to be replaced at the end of the season.
    Sooner if we fall of the cliff now.
    Agree on Pryor. We should already have made an example of him imho, nice guy or not.

    Your running game assessment ignores the obvious though. Our OL is beaten up bigtime (starters 'back' or not). We have good, not star RBs. They need holes to be successful. We aren't creating them but imho it's almost entirely due to OL and TE health (and our TE blocking is borderline even when the TEs ARE healthy). Not arguing that the running game has been mostly ineffective under Gruden - that's a fair assessment. Only that part of this seasons ineptitude has been injury-related (when we were healthier we had a decent output and commitment to the running game).

    I have no answers on overall solutions to get to the next level and break out of consistent mediocrity - I openly admit this.

    But one thing I do know is that blowing it up and starting all over every 3-4 years is what we've done for 20 years. It isn't the answer. I know the immediate response is 'look at the Eagles' or some other franchise. Of course there are examples of teams who clean house and then have great success. But I think those are outliers. Yes - sometimes teams luck into a great HC, a combination that works, or a surprise franchise QB. But those aren't common occurrences are they? They are exceptions.

    We don't exactly have a history of that kind of luck. Do we?

    I'd prefer we take the Steelers approach. Find a solid coaching staff. Draft, draft, draft. Stay the course. Take our medicine. And expect at some point for the commitment, consistency, and long-term approach to pay off.
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  3. #23

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    I have so many thoughts. Sorry in advance if this comes across disjointed.

    I don’t hate Jay Gruden. I think he has a decent offensive system that’s missing two pieces. The first is a stud, go-to, #1 receiver (maybe Doctson will become that, maybe not). Last year it was Jordan Reed but he can’t stay on the field this season. The second is a primary back that opposing coordinators at least have to think about. We only have a couple of JAG’s now.

    Cousins is a good qb but not one worthy of taking up 15%+ of the teams salary cap. I sincerely hope that our next first round pick, which is looking higher each week, will be spent on a qb. One that has that ‘it’ factor. Baker Mayfield anyone?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...irstround-pick

    I think we are building a fine defense. One that when healthy can be competitive today and will improve with time.

    Would anyone trade Gruden straight up for Sean McVay today? Will Josh McDaniels be the next head coaching star? (The Brady factor makes this a tougher consideration but years under Bellichek should matter.)
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  4. #24

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    I'm torn. The defense gave up huge points today which we just aren't used to seeing. Only 7 of those are really the fault of the offense too (Kirk's late first half INT). Even taking that TD away though they still gave up 31 points.

    Then there is Cousins who had a solid day but for two lousy plays. The INT which resulted in the short field and TD is the obvious one, especially considering we were only down 4 at the time and trading scores. The other was not so obvious though. It was the 4th and 2 play with just over a minute left in the 1st Qtr. Cousins hits Thompson, who is all alone, for 27 yards. The pass was overthrown and Thompson did a great job of pulling it in at all but had it been on the money Thompson walks into the End Zone for a TD. We ended up settling for a FG on the series and we lost Fat Rob for the rest of the game on a play that would not have even taken place.

    Even if the Skins don't score on the drive Cousins threw the pick that still keeps the Vikes out of the End Zone once which combined with a solid pass to Thompson makes the final 34-31 to Washington.

    I like Kirk but honestly, when you are making this much and want to be the man like he does, these are the plays you make. Of course, the defense has to step up more as well.
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  5. #25

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I have so many thoughts. Sorry in advance if this comes across disjointed.

    I don’t hate Jay Gruden. I think he has a decent offensive system that’s missing two pieces. The first is a stud, go-to, #1 receiver (maybe Doctson will become that, maybe not). Last year it was Jordan Reed but he can’t stay on the field this season. The second is a primary back that opposing coordinators at least have to think about. We only have a couple of JAG’s now.

    Cousins is a good qb but not one worthy of taking up 15%+ of the teams salary cap. I sincerely hope that our next first round pick, which is looking higher each week, will be spent on a qb. One that has that ‘it’ factor. Baker Mayfield anyone?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...irstround-pick

    I think we are building a fine defense. One that when healthy can be competitive today and will improve with time.

    Would anyone trade Gruden straight up for Sean McVay today? Will Josh McDaniels be the next head coaching star? (The Brady factor makes this a tougher consideration but years under Bellichek should matter.)
    Love Mayfield but you know he won't be available when we pick. Just the way our luck works.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Reading the press this morning the Defense stepped up to the plate to take blame for the loss. Across the board from Norman to Kerrigan they took it on the chin and said they didn't play well enough.

    Keim mentioned in an article on ESPN that... "The offense scored 30 points and managed 394 yards against the NFL’s fifth-ranked defense in yards allowed."

    On any given Sunday that should have got the job done against the Vikings. We can moan about missed opportunities by the Offense, but that's the most points ANYONE has put up on the Vikings all season. Good defenses force offenses into mistakes, the Vikings are legit good and yes we made a couple but then... this is football. It happens.

    What we needed to compliment that was last weeks Seattle crushing Defence. What we got was a lack of energy and no swagger. This looked like last years Defense and we can't blame injuries for the performance this week. There are no excuses for that, we were bad across the board. Line, Linebackers, the Seconday and Safety play was pretty dreadful all night bar a couple of DJ Swearinger Ints.

    But on a positive note (and I always find the positives!) If this team can now learn to put together this weeks Offense with last weeks Defense on a consistent basis...

    Maybe 2018 is our year.
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  7. #27

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    I respect that POV but could not disagree more. Yeah - the defense crapped the bed. But the bottom line is, going back to what I said earlier, it takes a total team effort to beat good teams. The offense gave up points, turned the ball over, and failed to close the deal in key opportunities. I am not going to give them a pass.
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  8. #28

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Love Mayfield but you know he won't be available when we pick. Just the way our luck works.
    If he goes to the NYG (with the Eagles and Cowboys being set with young, long-term qb’s) and we are ‘stuck’ with Komfortable Kirk...oy.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    I am at Disney so I didn’t watch the game except for a few plays here and there when waiting in line. But if you had told me the Redskins would put up 30 against a really good Vikings D, I would have been sure they would win. But giving up 38 to an OK Vikings offense, what happened to the defense? How do you give up that many points to a team playing without their top RB and with a backup QB.


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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    When a guy just promoted from the practice squad is your best outside receiving threat and Ryan Grant is your second best...

    Pryor is only used as a body in the double-stacked formation, Crowder (25/75) needs to buy a new set of hands on eBay, and 35 year old Vernon Davis is the only consistent receiving threat.
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  11. #31

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
    I am at Disney so I didn’t watch the game except for a few plays here and there when waiting in line. But if you had told me the Redskins would put up 30 against a really good Vikings D, I would have been sure they would win. But giving up 38 to an OK Vikings offense, what happened to the defense? How do you give up that many points to a team playing without their top RB and with a backup QB.


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    You dont cover their receivers, you consistently allow running lanes that I could take advantage of, and you allow their journeyman qb to feel like he’s wearing a yellow practice jersey...
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  12. #32

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Agree on Pryor. We should already have made an example of him imho, nice guy or not.

    Your running game assessment ignores the obvious though. Our OL is beaten up bigtime (starters 'back' or not). We have good, not star RBs. They need holes to be successful. We aren't creating them but imho it's almost entirely due to OL and TE health (and our TE blocking is borderline even when the TEs ARE healthy). Not arguing that the running game has been mostly ineffective under Gruden - that's a fair assessment. Only that part of this seasons ineptitude has been injury-related (when we were healthier we had a decent output and commitment to the running game).
    Taken as a whole, as in 3 1/2 years, the running game, both the design and execution, has been poor. At times, dreadful. With a handful of statically pleasing games. And a rarer still, dominate game. For all Gruden's lip service, he has failed, miserably, to field a professional running attack. Being a former QB, I chalk it up to disdain for running the ball. I know too that we haven't had a great RB around here since Riggins. The only other one in my lifetime was Larry Brown. Portis was very good. But not great. I have also flippantly said that Gruden wouldn't know how to use Jim Brown. I'm not sure though, if that's not 100% accurate.

    I have no answers on overall solutions to get to the next level and break out of consistent mediocrity - I openly admit this.

    But one thing I do know is that blowing it up and starting all over every 3-4 years is what we've done for 20 years. It isn't the answer. I know the immediate response is 'look at the Eagles' or some other franchise. Of course there are examples of teams who clean house and then have great success. But I think those are outliers. Yes - sometimes teams luck into a great HC, a combination that works, or a surprise franchise QB. But those aren't common occurrences are they? They are exceptions.

    We don't exactly have a history of that kind of luck. Do we?
    I hear you, brother. I've carried that flag for almost every coach we've had here since Gibbs 1.
    But Gruden's in his 4th year now. And I just don't think he's the guy anymore. I forced myself to by into him at the beginning of the year. One more time. But now, we have to rely on luck for him to become "The Man". As his coaching does not inspire visions of consistent success.

    Norv should've been gone after 4. Yet we endured 7.
    Gibbs would still be here, if he wanted to.
    Shammy ran himself out of town.
    The others were 2 yrs, or less.

    I'd prefer we take the Steelers approach. Find a solid coaching staff. Draft, draft, draft. Stay the course. Take our medicine. And expect at some point for the commitment, consistency, and long-term approach to pay off.
    Well, their guys also seem to show earlier signs of accomplishments. Warranting sticking with it.

    I don't believe Gruden will be fired. I also don't think he'll succeed.
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  13. #33

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    This year, to my knowledge, is the first year Gruden's called his own plays in DC - right? We've seen a bigger commitment to running this season at least early on with him calling all the plays. Given the inability of the OL and RBs to stay healthy, and to hold onto the ball, I can understand the hesitancy to rely on the running game. We also haven't been able to keep a lead to save our life - another factor that makes it hard to stick with the run.

    I'm not giving Gruden a pass. I generally agree. But I think if it weren't for some of the above we would be running a lot more.
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  14. #34

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    And btw - a lot of these discussions are 'chicken or the egg' arguments. You say the Steelers stuck with their coaches because they had accomplishments. I say they accomplished because they stuck with their coaches.

    If we wanted to be generous, we could argue that Gruden should get a pass for season 1 as he inherited a mess and had to dispense with RG3 against the owner's wishes. I'm also willing to give him a pass this season (not necessarily every game but in terms of it not being a playoff season) as I don't think any head coach could've gotten this team to the post-season with the # of key injuries we've had. Set aside those 2 seasons (again, yeah, thats being generous) and he's lead the team to an NFC East Championship and barely missed the playoffs in the other season.

    That warrants a little more time in my opinion.

    It took Norv 6 seasons to get to his only playoff appearance. I get your point regarding cutting your losses. But we KNOW Norv couldn't get it done because he never did as head coach of 2 subsequent teams over an 8 year span. We don't know that's true with Gruden. The other thing to consider - you fire every coach you hire within 4 years, and you know what that gets you? Shitty replacement candidates. No one wants to coach for an owner who fires every damn coach he hires in 3-4 years.
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    I think the biggest culprit for the loss, was lack of pass rush. Felt like for the first time, we didn't get any pressure up front. That would have helped some of the breakdowns in the secondary.
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  16. #36

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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Rob Kelley- high ankle sprain and MCL sprain. Will Compton- Lisfranc. Both may be put on IR.
    Last edited by Chris; 11-13-17 at 04:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Enforcer View Post
    I think the biggest culprit for the loss, was lack of pass rush.
    His name is Matt Ioannidis
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    In regards to the run game, part of it is the Oline.

    IMO, we only have two guys that can be dominate run blockers : (when healthy) Trent and Scherff.

    The other starters are generally weak in moving the LOS.

    My biggest worry is that this Front Office thinks the line is a finished product and skips investing higher picks in it and throws token 6 and 7th round picks at it.

    I don't trust Bruce or Doug Williams to assemble a pack n play, much less a team at draft time.
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Rob Kelley- high ankle sprain and MCL sprain. Will Compton- Lisfranc. Both may be put on IR.
    I swear to God - I challenge anyone to find a team in recent history that's lost so many players to injury. At this point, I am almost ready to campaign for a prohibition on criticism of this roster. Because Jesus himself could not win games with this roster given all of the injuries.
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    Default Re: Game Thread: Week 10 2017 - Vikings @ Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    In regards to the run game, part of it is the Oline.

    IMO, we only have two guys that can be dominate run blockers : (when healthy) Trent and Scherff.

    The other starters are generally weak in moving the LOS.

    My biggest worry is that this Front Office thinks the line is a finished product and skips investing higher picks in it and throws token 6 and 7th round picks at it.

    I don't trust Bruce or Doug Williams to assemble a pack n play, much less a team at draft time.
    Bullshit. This front office HAS assembled one of the best OL's in the NFL. You can't beat on them because we've been decimated by injury DP.
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