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  1. #1
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    Default Is Gruden too "soft" of a Head Coach ?

    I'm not sayin he is, so this is more of a proposed question, than a statement.
    Obviously he's a very player-friendly coach, and they all love him, and of course that's a good thing.
    But does it go too far ?
    Do they not have enough of a healthy respect/fear of him ?
    Yea, we see him throw a fit once in a while when somethin goes wrong, but is that really enough ?
    Maybe if he was a little tougher on them BEFORE the team makes embarrassing gaffes, they wouldn't make the gaffes in the first place ?
    Preseason may not be the most appropriate time to bring this up, but if we look back at last season, maybe
    there were indications there, that he didn't have the team fired up enough for crucial games, such as Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, etc, and maybe those losses aren't all on Kirk's shoulders, for not being "clutch" ?
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    Just from the outside looking in, something's not right. I mean, if you come out in the offseason and say we want to be a physical team that can run the ball(make that the last two offseasons) and then have the Oline put forth the paltry effort it has in that aspect of the game, then someone's not getting the message across.

    Sometimes, I wonder if that message(wanting to be a physical run team) is just lip service to the fans and behind the scenes it's something different.

    Williams saying that we've improved in the trenches(talking Oline here) rings hollow when we still have Lavaou at LG,who IMO, is the weakest link on the line. The guy's always been poor in the run game,which is why I'm hoping a young guy like Kalis surprises and unseats him.
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    And then there's Ryan Anderson's comment about Alabama's practices being tougher, and that makes me wonder too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    And then there's Ryan Anderson's comment about Alabama's practices being tougher, and that makes me wonder too.
    That doesn't bother me as much because Nick Saban doesn't operate under a negotiated CBA.

    But that's still not an excuse because other teams are able to get physical play out of their guys.
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    A piss poor effort by the offense in the first game didn't overly concern me. To come out in the second game and repeat it does. Maybe the loss of a talented coordinator is more of a factor than I imagined it would be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    And then there's Ryan Anderson's comment about Alabama's practices being tougher, and that makes me wonder too.
    Boys vs men. Saban wasn't worth a shit in the NFL.
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    Absolutely not. When guys screw up, Gruden is a hard ass. Look at what he did with Griffin for God's sake. He's probably learned to do it behind the scenes, but I think the idea that he's buddying up to players and is 'soft' is dead wrong.

    I think on the field performance is the culmination of a lot of things. The coach's temperment may be one of those factors, but it's way down the list imho - well after things like player talent level, experience, scheme, time together as a unit, quality of opponent, and many other factors. This isn't 'Hoosiers' - it's the NFL. Sure, a coach can fire up players in a given moment and maybe for a given game, but ultimately it's 1000 things that determine success or failure.

    As for Anderson's comment - I doubt that's got anything to do with Gruden. The NFL tightly restricts what teams can do in the practice setting. Every NFL practice is easier than the college equivalent - because the NFL doesn't allow coaches to do what they want. That's a given.

    Gruden isn't an unproven coach. He's gotten it done at the NFL level as an OC, and I think he's shown that he knows how to be a head coach at the NFL level. The Redskins are much better, more consistent, and have won more than they've lost since he got here. Is Gruden a finished product - NO - and I think he'd be the first to say he learns every day. Until he wins playoff games as a head coach and the ultimate prize, he deserves to be called a solid head coach and nothing more. That's fair. But 'soft'? I see no evidence of that.
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    Regarding the shit running game I googleded some stats via espn. I don't agree with how our offensive system is set up, at all. Basically we have Gruden calling the plays this year since Mcvay has left for the goats.

    So our coaches are listed as...
    Matt Cavanaugh offensive coordinator
    Bill Callahan assistant head coach/o-line/run game
    Gruden head coach/play caller

    Callahan was with the turds from 2012-2014. In the those seasons the turds ranked in rush yards for the season as...
    2012-31st....2013-24th...2014-2nd. A significant jump in the positive

    Jay came aboard in 2014 and the redskins have ranked since then....
    2014-19th...2015-20th...2016-21st

    Says a couple things to me really. Our run game "should" have improved since Callahan was hired but it's actually gotten worse. Our running game IS worse since Gruden was hired.

    Sure our passing has improved but we're consistently ranked in the 20's the last 3 years in rushing yardage. It's not Callahan so must be Jays overseeing it & or play calling. Which makes one wonder wtf does Cavanaugh do on game day. I see zero reasoning here in Jay calling plays with Cav & Cal here.
    Last edited by Win4us; 08-20-17 at 01:39 PM.
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    Can't discuss this without considering the talent Gruden has at RB. He was saddled with Matt Jones - a guy who others have rightly pointed out, while talented, isn't the kind of RB that Gruden's offenses in Cincy utilized. Gruden will always have a pass happy offense - my question is, what's the beef with that? We've put up better offensive #'s under Gruden's offense than we have in a decade in DC. Gruden DID run quite a bit in Cincy when he had a power back who could actually be effective. I don't subscribe to the theory that we need to have a 50-50 play split between passing and running in order to be successful. That was true in the 1980's (maybe), but the NFL is a passing league now. We need a running game that is effective when we go to it and that defenses have to legitimately gameplan to stop. We don't necessarily need 200 yds/game rushing every week.

    I would argue that our woeful running game is more due to lack of talent (or more precisely, the lack of the right kind of RB than it is a lack of appreciation for the importance of the running game, or an inadequate OL. I think Perine is a better style fit for what Gruden wants to do at RB - but we'll see if having a power, up the gut RB results in a better ground game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Can't discuss this without considering the talent Gruden has at RB. He was saddled with Matt Jones - a guy who others have rightly pointed out, while talented, isn't the kind of RB that Gruden's offenses in Cincy utilized. Gruden will always have a pass happy offense - my question is, what's the beef with that?

    Ask the Atlanta Falcons what is wrong with that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    We've put up better offensive #'s under Gruden's offense than we have in a decade in DC. Gruden DID run quite a bit in Cincy when he had a power back who could actually be effective. I don't subscribe to the theory that we need to have a 50-50 play split between passing and running in order to be successful. That was true in the 1980's (maybe), but the NFL is a passing league now. We need a running game that is effective when we go to it and that defenses have to legitimately gameplan to stop. We don't necessarily need 200 yds/game rushing every week.
    No, but in the 4th Q with a lead on the board, you need a run game that can take over and drive home the win. See above for a great example of that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I would argue that our woeful running game is more due to lack of talent (or more precisely, the lack of the right kind of RB than it is a lack of appreciation for the importance of the running game, or an inadequate OL. I think Perine is a better style fit for what Gruden wants to do at RB - but we'll see if having a power, up the gut RB results in a better ground game.

    I'm just not going to pin my hopes on hitting a HR with another late round RB, although I guess I have no choice because as much as I like Rob Kelly, he is not starter/carry it 25 times material. He is a very solid 2nd string fill in for a tired #1 . I think it's been proven the RB by committee won't work, so we need a horse who can carry the ball 20 tines a game, at least.
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    As far as Gruden being too soft is concerned, there are styles that dictate it, i.e., Bellichek, and styles that do not, i.e., Gibbs.

    Gruden is a lot like Gibbs in that he does not have the strict my way or highway style of a Bellichek, but he doesn't warrant the respect given Joe Gibbs. He's caught in no man's land and we have seen an undisciplined team far too often under Gruden. Just to be sure, I'm not talking about players walking on eggshells discipline, I'm talking more along the line of mental breakdowns you don't see from Patriots teams.

    Gruden is too soft.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    I can respect your points here El. But I think most draft experts had this year's running back class rated as one of the most talented in a decade. So in Perine's case, I'm not sure *where* he was drafted is a true reflection of his talent level. Time will tell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I can respect your points here El. But I think most draft experts had this year's running back class rated as one of the most talented in a decade. So in Perine's case, I'm not sure *where* he was drafted is a true reflection of his talent level. Time will tell.
    Well, I certainly hope Peerine can step up, because I have no confidence in any of the other RB's to carry the lion's share. Chris Thompson remains the best RB we have, but he cannot consistently carry the ball 20-25 times a game.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Whatever the CBA rules are, there are teams that max out contact, and tackling to the ground.
    And then there's us. According to local reporters, other teams (forget the names) do more physical practices then we do. Reportedly, due to fear of injury.

    That's soft.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Whatever the CBA rules are, there are teams that max out contact, and tackling to the ground.
    And then there's us. According to local reporters, other teams (forget the names) do more physical practices then we do. Reportedly, due to fear of injury.

    That's soft.
    Bullshit. Which teams? Have you observed their practices? No - you haven't. You're taking DC mediots word for it Ax? That's just a beleagured Redskins fan post Ax.
    Last edited by Boone; 08-20-17 at 05:03 PM.
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    Interesting topic - With Gibbs he always built up the opposition to be the best prepared most important game to ever be played. That works for a while but wasn't very effective in Gibbs2.0.

    We have heard/seen some outbursts from Gruden; constant outbursts become the norm and get tuned out.

    When Gruden took over he had a finesse team - he has added lots of big guys but my feeling is that we are still working some of the finesse techniques. Our line is bigger and meaner and maybe this is the year it fully matures into what we are looking for.

    When Gruden publicly speaks of limiting preseason reps and making sure that starters don't get injured that could have something to do with it. Heard Kerrigan saying that every time out on the field you want to leave good film so you have to play your best. Who knows?

    I also think he is feeling his way with the restrictions of the CBA - it happened right when he got hired and it certainly changed everything he had experienced prior to it.

    Then, I also have the sneaking suspicion that teams are finding ways around it - cheating...in the NFL???

    Feel like Gruden is following the rules.
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    One other add-on
    Marty was tough - worked his guys hard always and always faded in the stretch.

    I think Gruden wants to have gas in the tank mid to late season - for what it is worth.
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    Bottom line is results. Gruden has made us competitive. I'm going to wait to see where he can take us before I judge.


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    Quote Originally Posted by blanford View Post
    One other add-on
    Marty was tough - worked his guys hard always and always faded in the stretch.

    I think Gruden wants to have gas in the tank mid to late season - for what it is worth.
    Marty was tough but when he told you his team was going to be physical and he was going to run the ball, you believed him, because it showed up on the field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanford View Post
    One other add-on
    Marty was tough - worked his guys hard always and always faded in the stretch.

    I think Gruden wants to have gas in the tank mid to late season - for what it is worth.
    All well and good..that is assuming we have a REASON to have gas in the tank mid to late season.

    Gibbs 2.0 came into a team he did not put together. The personality of the team never meshed under Gibbs 2.0, which is unfortunate. Yes, every opponent was the best team in the world and Gibbs was able to get his Gibbs 1.0 players to buy into that. Didn't hurt that we had a certain #44 as well as the Smurfs...
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