A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    04-13-14
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    1,214
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    1
    Army

    Default Thoughts on the 14 Other Redskin FA's

    There are 14 other Redskins FA's besides Kirk Cousins this year. The Kirk thing has been an ongoing debate in several other threads so I'm just looking for thoughts on these other players.
    Granted many decisions will be based on the draft but where might these guys fit in if at all.

    From the top (2016 contracts) down per Spotrac: (link: 2017 NFL Free Agents Tracker | Spotrac)

    2 WR's Pierre Garcon (30) & DeSean Jackson (30): Pierre was at $8.5M and DeSean was at $6M. Many 'experts' are projecting their new contracts in the $7.5M to $9M range for 2017. Whether anyone agree's that range is realistic isn't the point. What if it is the case? Currently they are #3 & #4 salary wise of all FA WR's.
    If so, Jackson probably goes and Garcon stays. They'll keep one but not both. DeSean doesn't look quite as quick these days and I just don't see $17M or so between two receivers especially with Reed. Might they get a younger FA and cut both? I doubt it, there really isn't much quality below them at any age. Above them is Alshon Jeffery (26 yo/$15M) whose probably taking a pay cut because he can't stay on the field and Vinny Jackson (33).

    DE Chris Baker (29) at $4.3M. This will be interesting. He's #6 in salary but was #3 right behind Calais Campbell (30) at $11M and JPP (28) at $10M in production and was about equal with Andre Branch (27) @ $2.75M who is #8 on the salary chart. There's a decent need across the league for DE's so who knows what the market will be but $6M for Baker by some team is not a stretch. More upside to Branch but staying healthy is an issue.
    If Baker's market does hit $6M I doubt the Redskins are paying it.

    Below those three, most of the rest fit into the cheap to keep category, provided you want to keep them.

    TE Vernon Davis (31) at $2.4M. Quality #2 and can start if you need him to. Not really that old and they can probably keep him for about the same salary. He stay's, especially considering how hard it's been to keep Skins TE's off of IR.

    OLB Junior Galett (28) at $1.6M - Probably needs to take a pay cut and/or have an injury clause in a non-guaranteed contract but worth a shot in camp under those conditions.

    DT Kedric Golston (33) at $1M - Injuries the last few years. Not a starter and never really produced much. Develop a younger player as a backup and grab a FA to start, there's several DT's hitting FA.

    LS Nick Sundberg (29) at $1M - Just keep him.

    DE Cullen Jenkins (35) at $985K - He was OK considering how the Skins used him but let him go and if you need the help pick him up in week 1. If someone else grabs him, good for him.

    SS Donte Whitener (31) at $985K - Cut and move on. There's a lot of pickens at Safety his year. A couple of FA's out there - Cyprien (26) JAX at $1.4M or Tony Jefferson (24) AZ $1.7M. I don't see the Cards letting one of their young Safeties go but if Bradley came to DC might Cyprien follow? Him and Cravens together would be awesome.

    DE Ziggy Hood (29) at $935K - Once Barry figured out he wasn't a NT he did well as a swing man. IDK if he's starter but definitely a good backup and probably can be signed for about $1.5M. Pretty cheap for a former first round pick.

    C John Sullivan (31) at $885K - Unless they pick up a young guy that can be a good #1 or #2 he did OK. His starting days are well behind him but right now they are really thin at Center. Of course, Kory is still under contract but can save the team $3.5M in cap if he's cut if you like dem apples. Joe Hawley (28) at $1.6M with Tampa would be worth looking into.

    The last 4, CB Toler (32), LB/ST Garvin (26), (SS) Ihenacho (27) and (SS) Evans(25). All of these guys are under $850K and won't command much more. Garvin should stay around, don't know anything about Evans, the other two maybe can go. There are many young FA CB's out there so nothing against Toler but there is some youth that won't cost massively over Greg's paycheck. AJ Bouye (25) HOU at $1.7M is kinda interesting. Also Sterling Moore (26) NO at $760K. Both of them had pretty good numbers compared to other better known FA's with more snaps and getting paid millions of dollars more.

    Again, these are 2016 salaries so how much might they move up or down go ahead and take a guess at.

    Most teams aren't going to go after an RFA but Thompson, Compton & Nsekhe are all RFA's however I don't see anyone trying to snipe one.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    11,398
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Nice work!

    Here's how I see 3 of the names on that list.

    it would be a pretty crushing blow to lose Baker, but when he walked off the field at the end of the Giants game, he looked like he took it harder than anyone else I saw that night. We might have to pay him handsomely and the reality is, he earned it, but I could see him walking for a really big payday.

    Desean may look slower, but he still gets open, often. He is still a threat, if Kirk connects on 4 of the long balls he missed to Jackson this year, we're looking at a playoff berth. However, he doesn't want to re-sign with us. He's gone and I think we can let him walk.

    Garcon...must...re-sign...him! He is like Anquan Bolden, he will do well in this league for another 5 years because he is strong enough, and he runs routes better than most. He is not a super star, but he is the type of WR you keep around. He was our best all around WR this season and got a slow start on the year.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  3. #3

    2016 BGO FF Champion
    Ugly American

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    6,873
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Default

    Depending on who the new DC wants to keep around, and assuming all the contracts would be good for both sides, I'd prioritize, and try to keep, Garcon, Jackson, Baker, and Sundberg.
    Davis, Hood, and Ihenacho are valuable backups, for now.
    Garvin, and Evans youth make them worth another look-see for OTA's, training camp, and preseason. Though any one of them could be replaced if Scot finds something better.
    Sullivan's experience gets him another look as well.
    And, as long as he's cheap, with no guaranteed money, I think it's worth it to keep Galette around to see if we can actually get him on the field to see what he might have left.

    Golston, Jenkins, Whitner, and Toler? Buh-bye.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  4. #4
    NFL Pickem Champion 2016
    Join Date
    01-22-10
    Posts
    752
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Pass on Galette. And pass on all except Garcon, Sundberg, Baker.

    The new DC won't have any say on who to keep. He'll start out a yes man. McClou on hot seat to produce and rebuild.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,728
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    Not if the DC is Wade Phillips. He isn't going to come here and simply work with the talent he is given. He is going to have some say in who they bring back and bring in.

    I would bring back Garcon (if he isn't asking for Julio Jones money, which he doesn't deserve), Baker (again, if his contract bid is market) and Sundberg ( good long-snappers are hard to find).

    From what Gallette said in interviews recently he has already discussed coming back on a one year 'prove it' deal with McCloughan, so I think unless something happens in free agency or the draft with other players at OLB that Junior will be on the team.

    Even though it is one year out, I think part of the Redskins offseason is going to be about locking up younger guys like Morgan Moses and Jamison Crowder with contract extensions.

    Again, my view is that a return to the team of Shawn Lauvao and Kory Lichtensteiger is a sign the front office has at least in part failed to adequately upgrade the roster.

    These players are NOT 16 game starters in the NFL with any other teams and should not be put in that position by the Redskins either.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  6. #6

    2016 BGO FF Champion
    Ugly American

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    6,873
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    Default

    Yeah, a GM decides who makes the roster. But he doesn't pick who plays.

    New DC will definitely have input. As he should. Doesn't mean he'll get final say.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  7. #7
    NFL Pickem Champion 2016
    Join Date
    01-22-10
    Posts
    752
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Why would Wade ever leave Denver? Its not even an option.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    09-28-10
    Location
    BGO's Official Resident "Tech Dummy"
    Posts
    9,240
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)

    Default

    Looking at FA from the opposite angle, here's a list of other teams' FA's the Skins might seriously look at :

    S Eric Barry – Kansas City Chiefs
    S Tony Jefferson – Arizona Cardinals
    DT Kawann Short – Carolina Panthers
    DT Bennie Logan – Philadelphia Eagles
    DT Dontari Poe – Kansas City Chiefs
    DT Akeem Spence – Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    DE William Gholston – Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    DE Calais Campbell – Arizona Cardinals
    DE Mario Addison – Carolina Panthers
    ILB Gerald Hodges – San Francisco 49ers
    WR Alshon Jeffery – Chicago Bears
    WR Kamar Aiken – Baltimore Ravens
    WR Kenny Stills – Miami Dolphins
    WR Markus Wheaton – Pittsburgh Steelers
    C Kevin Zeitler – Cincinnati Bengals
    G Ronald Leary – Dallas Cowboys
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Sent from my Basic Flip Phone.
    Powered by Tomato Can Wireless.

  9. #9
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    04-13-14
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    1,214
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    1
    Army

    Default

    Nice list, Fear. I don't think they'll spend the bucks on some of those guys but I didn't think they'd have dropped that much coin on Norman either.

    There's also the list of guys who may go to save both cap & roster space.

    The Redskins cap space for 2017 is currently $67M. Bear in mind that those 15 FA's have no salary against the cap.

    There's 8 guys that could give back significant cap ($2M+) savings. 3 are on the safe list Trent Williams ($2M), Kerrigan ($2M) & Colt ($2.5M).
    However the other 5 are prospects of being cut or looking at a restructured salary.

    Niles Paul - $2M savings & current cap hit $2.3M. $4M over the last two years and 8 games with 1 start. If they can find a better use for him away from the TE spot so he can stay healthy he's OK to keep I guess. I'd sign Davis for a little more and draft a TE.
    RJF - $3M savings & current cap hit $4M. He's a UFA in 2018. A good candidate for a team friendly extension, like a 3 year contract that you can walk away from in 2 and cut the cap hit from $4M to $2M.
    Kory - $3.5M savings & current cap hit $4M . Keep Sullivan (and/or obtain another), cut Kory and still come out $2.5M ahead.
    Lauvao - $4M savings & current cap hit $5M. A FA in 2018. Not worth that cap hit considering how well the other guys that played in that spot did by comparison. Trade if possible. Otherwise he's probably following Kory out the door.
    Hall - $4.25M savings & current cap hit $5M. Most likely he'll be cut and they'll move on. He said he's willing to renegotiate his contract but I don't know how far he'll drop from $5M. He did take about a $6M pay cut during the dark days of the cap penalty so I don't know. Maybe a Vet minimum deal? Minimum salary ($1M) plus the allowable bonus ($80K) gets him $1.08M and only costs the Skins $680K against the cap. That's almost exactly what Blackmon is getting ($1.075M). Depending on how things go in the near future between draft and FA signings I wouldn't be surprised to see both of them gone to make room for fresh blood.

    That's up to almost $17M available in that pool of 5 to get sign of the current FA's, do early extensions on younger guys and still have around $65M cap space.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,728
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    The team needs to move on from Kory Lichtensteiger, DeAngelo Hall, Niles Paul because they simply can't be counted on to remain healthy for anything approaching a 16 game season. The first two are also on the wrong side of 30.

    Other players I have to wonder about include Derek Carrier, Will Compton, Preston Smith, Bashaud Breeland.

    Carrier cost the Redskins a #5 pick two years ago and like the three players above is known most recently for getting hurt and ending up on IR for long stretches of time. Even healthy, Carrier is a pass receiving TE but only an average to below average blocker.

    Unfortunately for him, our #1 and #2 tight ends are excellent pass receivers and what we really need out of that #3 slot is an in-line blocker who can help us in the run game. That player, I think most would agree is not yet on the roster.

    Compton has been the starting ILB, but athletically he is challenged to play against the better opponents we face. He is small as a 3-4 linebacker and does not possess great speed or quickness. His greatest asset is his work ethic and knowledge of the defense, which makes him perfect as a depth/reserve player who comes in during a game when a starter goes down. But to start him for 16 games is a bit of a stretch at this level.

    Preston Smith was a #2 pick and a lot more was expected of him than he has delivered. We would not be looking to resign Junior Galette as a situational rusher if Smith had blossomed on the outside as a consistent performer. He seems to have 3-4 games each year where he shows up, is visible making plays and gets credit from Gruden and the coaching staff. But there are also those other 10 games where you wonder whether #94 is even playing because he doesn't seem to be making any plays. A new defensive coordinator needs to get through to Smith, who from what I have read here on the site, appears to be a young man that is living a party lifestyle.

    Breeland played well his first couple of seasons and I think there was an expectation he could develop into a #1 corner. Instead, he slid down the slope of being a #2 and ended up this current season filling the slot role, which he clearly didn't appreciate.

    But Breeland only has himself to blame for how things ended up in 2016. He was burned early in the season when he was matched up against some A list receivers and also badly missed some open field tackles that allowed teams to turn productive plays into scoring plays.

    We have to re-evaluate Breeland and his role going forward. Now that Barry is gone we can admit that Norman is the #1 corner and if he has a place in DC, Breeland is going to have recapture that #2 role on the outside by being a lot more consistent.

    We will have to wait and see because I don't necessarily believe 100% that Breeland and Kendall Fuller are keepers on defense.

    They could be. Both are athletic enough to play at this level and have good size for cornerbacks.

    But Breeland has fallen from where he was, while Fuller never did show us the ability that Scot McCloughan credited him with after the draft. To Scot, Fuller was the surprise of the draft for the Redskins as he thought Fuller was a #1 pick in terms of talent/upside.

    Did anyone see that, even in flashes from him?
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  11. #11

    Join Date
    04-11-09
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    17,683
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    94
    Marine Corps Virginia

    Default

    Breeland had a bad year, but including him on any kind of a 'bubble' list is misplaced I think. We've seen him perform at a very high level. I don't know what happened to him this year. Perhaps some of it was emotional/attitudinal where he struggled being a #2 with the surprise acquisition of Norman? I have to think the other factor was the scheme and poor coaching however. He's a talented youngster - no way we move on from him. A solid D.C. At worst makes him serviceable, at best makes him a pro bowler.


    Posted With Tapatalk
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    You ain't bonafide

  12. #12
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    05-17-10
    Posts
    1,225
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Navy

    Default

    This year coming up is breelands contract year so I doubt we sign him again if he has another bad year. Fuller before his surgery was scheduled to be a mid to bottom of the first round pick. The surgery had used to end people's careers if he gets better his second year and keeps progressing that's what you want. While most of the bottom of the first round players haven't performed good this year it's to early to write them off either. Some there is an adjustment to be made. There were some that wanted to cut Morgan Moses after his first year.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  13. #13
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,728
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    On that FA list, Eric Berry of the Chiefs is one of the best players at his position in the NFL.

    As with Josh Norman, he would cost a fortune to sign in free agency, so despite having the need signing Eric is a 1% chance move for us.

    It is possible that the Redskins try and sign a DT. McCloughan doesn't seem to find value in DTs in the draft regardless of the round, so the youngest of the available FAs could be on our radar screen, especially if we continue to run the 3-4.

    I love Calais Campbell, but at 31, he's a bit long in the tooth for a big money deal from us.

    If we switch to a 4-3, we need someone with his skills profile though, a capable run defender and pass rusher. Great size, wingspan.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  14. #14
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    03-08-10
    Location
    Middle Earth MD
    Posts
    1,843
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Not ready to give up yet on either Bree or Fuller. Bree may be a slight 'head case' but we have seen those 'flashes' already.

    Fuller? Don't know yet but opposing teams went after the rookie to see what he had with some good and some bad results. How Fuller pans out is yet to be seen but the guys he went against also did their thing against other CBs.

    Think we all realize that in 'todays' game instant results are expected, which is a shame because the 'human condition' has not been able to keep up with the same schedule.

    It may still be relevant that it takes at least two to three years for young players to fully get the 'game'. They can't beef up using enhancers, they can't develop the physical skills of contact in camp and with a multitude of coaching changes, imbedding 'the scheme' sets back development as well. They're still 'young' to boot and going up against 'men' who have 'gotten it'

    References to Allen's draft has been mentioned several times with some surprise....there's that window of development in effect.

    Thompson himself mentioned that the game is slowing down, learned how to train and protect himself from the hits that used to break his body. He's become more patient, sees the field much better and knows the book so he can 'just play'. He was a bust too. Injured enough to miss a full year so that makes for roughly three years of time for him to 'get it'
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    "Patience is not simply the ability to wait - it's how we behave while we're waiting." ~ Joyce Meyer

  15. #15
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,728
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    I agree. That's why I thought there is still a chance for both Breeland and Fuller.

    More so for Breeland because he has already shown he can be a capable starter.

    The new DC just has to hope he can de-program Breeland from the awful alignments Barry/Fewell had these guys playing and get them back on track.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  16. #16

    Join Date
    10-01-09
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    9,602
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    133
    Virginia

    Default

    Did you not see my post in "Random Redskins Thoughts" on Saturday afternoon regarding the BBQ blog on upcoming key dates, free agency, and mocks? I'm not mad, just curious as to why you do this each year right before I post the key dates, FA looks, and mocks.

    So all that work over several weeks now means nothing and we now have two larger threads on the subject - at least on FA.

    Please be advised that research is not done in just a few hours regarding free agency. You must monitor twitter constantly and establish relationships with insiders for information. It takes time, but I don't mind doing it. I'm on disability and have the extra time to do this for everyone here.

    I understand the need for info and the need to post it five minutes after the season is over, but this takes time and it takes just a small amount of patience.

    Research on the draft typically starts in mid October. You must start with key games on Saturdays from the morning until late at night. Another few hours on any day of the following week is needed. It requires a database that grows each week.

    When the season is over, you must spend twelve to fourteen hours each Saturday looking at vids, reading draft analyses, continue to build the database, continue to monitor Redskins insiders, and stay tuned to the latest news. Oh, and you need to compile an injury database. It's important.

    Formatting for such an entry here is needed. It needs to look clean and professional. I'm not saying this to gather any kudos, it's simply to let you know that a lot goes into the offseason blog. Each year this happens and each year I think a little more about how it really may not matter.

    Again, I'm not mad - just "meh" and wonder why this happens each year.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The simplicity in me is complicated.
    I live in my own little world, but that's ok. They know me here.
    Redskins Fan - Emeritus

  17. #17

    Join Date
    04-11-09
    Location
    Montclair, VA
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    1
    Virginia Tech

    Default

    BB, everyone here appreciates the time and work you put in, I trust you know that. But the easy answer to your question is that there's plenty of room on BGO for threads and recurrent blogs started by members, even when the subject matter overlaps from time to time.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    Eschew obfuscation.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    10-01-09
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    9,602
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    133
    Virginia

    Default

    I understand that and more - I really do.

    However, it is widely known that I ask in each blog for members to provide their thoughts and ideas on every aspect of these blogs. I do so each and every single time. It's for everyone here. Sure, it's voluntary, but it is highly encouraged each time a new post is provided.

    After this season, I may spend far less time on the offseason blog. Maybe it will yield better results, but it could avoid the yearly encounters I have with this person.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The simplicity in me is complicated.
    I live in my own little world, but that's ok. They know me here.
    Redskins Fan - Emeritus

  19. #19

    Join Date
    04-11-09
    Location
    Montclair, VA
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    1
    Virginia Tech

    Default

    This needs to be a private conversation, brother. Feel free to PM me if you wish ...
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Subscribe to our BGO Mailing List

    Eschew obfuscation.

  20. #20
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    6,728
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    Can I add my mock here?

    Just kidding 😉

    Burgundy, you come up with guys as early as the third round I have to look up to find out who they are.

    No one takes your place 😎
    0 0 0 0
     
     

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. quick thoughts
    By fansince62 in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 10-25-10, 08:08 PM
  2. Thoughts I wish I didn't have
    By servumtuum in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-04-10, 11:08 AM
  3. 2010 Redskin Schedule via Redskin Insider
    By riggins44 in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-20-10, 11:06 PM
  4. Halftime Thoughts...
    By Boone in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-09, 03:38 PM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •