A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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    B Burner's Burning Questions: Week Fifteen Grades, Evaluations, Questions

    Greetings from BBQ. We hope you are having a good holiday season and will receive some nice Redskins gifts in the coming days.

    Week fifteen is in the books and now we take a look at how the entire team fared against the Panthers. Everyone is mad again and this time it has likely ended any playoff hopes for 2016. We will keep the answers short and terse as it is a narrow football week and the holiday is near. We will try to make some sense of it all as BBQ hands out grades, evaluations and questions. Feel free to offer your own grades, evaluations, questions, and opinions.

    Let

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    Week Fifteen Grades, Evaluations, Questions


    Greetings from BBQ. We hope you are having a good holiday season and will receive some nice Redskins gifts in the coming days.

    Week fifteen is in the books and now we take a look at how the entire team fared against the Panthers. Everyone is mad again and this time it has likely ended any playoff hopes for 2016. We will keep the answers short and terse as it is a narrow football week and the holiday is near. We will try to make some sense of it all as BBQ hands out grades, evaluations and questions. Feel free to offer your own grades, evaluations, questions, and opinions.

    Let’s take a look at week fifteen.

    Quarterbacks:
    Question: Was this Kirk’s worst game of the season?
    Answer: Yes. For the first time this season, the offense lost the game and most of it was the quarterback.
    Grade: F

    Running Backs:
    Question: Is it time to bring back Matt Jones?
    Answer: Only if it can help his trade value.
    Grade: F

    Wide Receivers:
    Question: Was this the only bright spot for the team?
    Answer: Yes. Their efforts were noble, but it wasn’t enough to bring the team any hope.
    Grade: C+

    Tight Ends:
    Question: Is the Jordan Reed injury hindering the team?
    Answer: Likely so. He shouldn’t have played the last two games.
    Grade: F

    Offensive Line:
    Question: Why did they have problems in the running game?
    Answer: Carolina’s defense was geared to stopping the run and this unit failed in their performance Monday night.
    Grade: D

    Defensive Line:
    Question: What grade would you give their effort against the Panthers?
    Answer: It was below failing. Just a huge mess.
    Grade: F

    Linebackers:
    Question: And what grade would you give to this group?
    Answer: Preston Smith is a second year disappointment. The mikes are subpar. Ryan Kerrigan got injured.
    Grade: D-

    Cornerbacks:
    Question: Did it seem like Bashaud Breeland was the lone bright spot?
    Answer: Breeland did play better and Josh Norman had a few struggles, but gave a spirited effort.
    Grade: C

    Safeties:
    Question: Is it safe to say, “YUCK”?
    Answer: That is putting it honestly and succinctly.
    Grade: F

    Special Teams:
    Question: Are we still worrying about Dustin Hopkins?
    Answer: Probably so, but the Redskins gave up too early on Graham Gano and Nick Novak. Tress Way was a bit off on Monday night. Chris Thompson should’ve taken a knee to start the second half – even one yard deep. Rarely do kickoffs get returned to the twenty-five and the team was pinned deep. Take the knee (and avoid the penalty) and the second half likely starts differently (no turnover and no quick Carolina touchdown).
    Grade: F

    Coaching:
    Question: What can we say about the coaches this week?
    Answer: Offense. They lost the game and put the defense in difficult situations.

    Defense. They couldn’t stop a wounded quarterback and an aging running back.

    Special teams. There was nothing special about it.
    Jay Gruden’s tirade after the Cardinals game has obviously had zero effect and this speaks to his leadership. Joe Barry, quite frankly, is not the answer as defensive coordinator. Special teams needs to become special again. BBQ believes that a new defensive coordinator is needed this offseason, but is undecided on a new head coach.
    Grade: F


    General Manager:
    Scot McCloughan needs a grade here, but we will simply do an evaluation. He neglected the defensive line in free agency and the draft – that can’t happen in 2017. Team needs on defense include the line, two mikes, one corner, and two safeties. On offense, team needs include running back, left guard, and possibly wide receiver. There is much cap room to help and there are nine picks in the draft. A huge dent in needs is possible and the “best player available” works only for teams who are already playoff/Super Bowl contenders. It’s time to address the needs.

    How would you grade each position and the coaching staff? Do you want a new head coach or should we move on? Is the evaluation of Scot McCloughan fair? How much of the upcoming free agency should be spent on defense? Are the Redskins out of the playoff picture? Are you giving Redskins gifts to loved ones this weekend? On to week sixteen. We’ll see you next week with grades, evaluations, and questions.

    BBQ wishes you a very Merry Christmas and a wonderful holiday season. Be safe if you are traveling.

    Hail to the Redskins!
    Last edited by Burgundy Burner; 12-21-16 at 07:17 PM.
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    I see you forgot the coaching grade, so I'll fill that one in for you.

    Coaching - Z
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I see you forgot the coaching grade, so I'll fill that one in for you.

    Coaching - Z
    The changes have been made. When making adjustments to the template for this week a mistake was made and now it is corrected. Thanks for helping with the error.
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    Mark Rypien and Brian Mitchell are right.

    The Redskins went into the Carolina game with control of their playoff spot and with only 2-3 weeks left in the season these players should have been focused and energetic as a group.

    Instead they came out flat and looking beaten, as if the season was over.

    It seems clear the players like Gruden and the coordinators.

    But what seems to be missing is that 10% fear factor.

    Patriots players are afraid to make mistakes and take a poor loss in NE.

    The players in Pittsburgh and Green Bay seem the same way.

    Here we don't see that side come out.

    What would be nice to see is for the team after a lackluster half like the one against Carolina to come out in the second half, shake off the mistakes and go out and win the game with a strong effort.

    But we don't get much of that.

    What you see in the second half is exactly what you saw in the first half.

    So, coaching is a huge issue here.

    You only want to resign Cousins if he is going to play in a system tailor made for what he does well.

    If Gruden is not the coach to lead this team to a title then it would be self-defeating to tie another coach's hands with a big contract for Cousins.

    Cousins has all the ear marks of a guy that would struggle in another scheme.

    One that wants him to throw that staple of the WCO, the slant, and be more aggressive driving the ball in the middle of the field and end zone.

    Areas where Cousins has historically thrown most of his interceptions.
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    FYI...

    The offseason blog of BBQ is likely coming in two weeks or so. The first blog will be devoted to free agency. We will list players likely to be released, not re-signed, on the fence, and likely re-signed. We will not list free agents from other teams as we have done in the past, but will highlight team needs and provide you with links to FAs from other teams.

    This brings me to a question...

    The first mock draft will come shortly after the FA blog. Would you prefer to have a video accompany the prospects we mock or would you prefer a list of possible candidates ranked in order that are not mocked for each selection - in addition to the player listed? I can't do both as that is very time consuming.

    I have been looking at prospects since mid October and will continue to do so until the draft arrives. Any other suggestions will be considered. Your input is highly valued.
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    BB, are we keeping Matt Jones around just til the end of the season, only in case there's injuries ?
    Or does he actually get one more look next year ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Mark Rypien and Brian Mitchell are right.

    The Redskins went into the Carolina game with control of their playoff spot and with only 2-3 weeks left in the season these players should have been focused and energetic as a group.

    Instead they came out flat and looking beaten, as if the season was over.

    It seems clear the players like Gruden and the coordinators.

    But what seems to be missing is that 10% fear factor.

    Patriots players are afraid to make mistakes and take a poor loss in NE.

    The players in Pittsburgh and Green Bay seem the same way.

    Here we don't see that side come out.

    What would be nice to see is for the team after a lackluster half like the one against Carolina to come out in the second half, shake off the mistakes and go out and win the game with a strong effort.

    But we don't get much of that.

    What you see in the second half is exactly what you saw in the first half.

    So, coaching is a huge issue here.

    You only want to resign Cousins if he is going to play in a system tailor made for what he does well.

    If Gruden is not the coach to lead this team to a title then it would be self-defeating to tie another coach's hands with a big contract for Cousins.

    Cousins has all the ear marks of a guy that would struggle in another scheme.

    One that wants him to throw that staple of the WCO, the slant, and be more aggressive driving the ball in the middle of the field and end zone.

    Areas where Cousins has historically thrown most of his interceptions.

    Hmmmmm I see the points you're making but I'm not sure I agree with alot of them tbh. (I've not heard Rypien or Mitchell so can't comment on them...)

    I'm not disagreeing that the fact that we looked terrible on Monday, we did. But I've watched that game twice now and for me it didn't look like it was particularly for lack of effort.
    The team was just.... off on almost everything.

    It happens. It's just a shame it happened at the worst time in the season for us.

    The three teams you mentioned as examples of how things should be... Pittsburgh, Green Bay and New England...

    The difference with those teams is they are Mature.

    a) they have QB's who have been around for a long time, they know the team inside out and backwards and have fought through slumps before. We have Kirk Cousins in what is essentially his second year. He's doing really well, but I don't consider him to be anywhere CLOSE to as experienced as Brady, Rodgers or BigBen. Those guys have the veterancy to keep a ship stable in all kinds of bad conditions.

    b) they have coaches who have been there for a long time. Again they are experienced not just as being head coaches but also with their particular teams. Mike Tomlin has been in Pittsburgh for almost 10 years. Mike McCarthy almost 11 years. Belli has steered New England for almost 17 years.

    I'm not sure the fear factor has anything to do with it. The organisations who are successful as a general rule are the ones that have stability. Stability enables you to weather periods of bad play. It enables the players to feel comfortable and confident within a system. The more experience that a team has TOGETHER the more consistent it becomes.

    Consider Green Bay. They looked AWFUL for a long period early in the season, but now they're pulling their collective asses together and pushing for the post season. I wouldn't bet against them. And the reason for this is not because the players are afraid of McCarthy, it's because the veterans who are important to stabilizing a situation like that have all been there and done it. They've seen this before and know how to play through it. You can't compare teams who have been together for 5+ years to one that's still muddling through essentially year 2 of stability.

    Kirk is a young QB with little experience. We like to jump on the fact that he's been in the league since 2012, but honestly he has 44 starts over 5 years. Rodgers is 140 starts over 11 years. BigBen has 154 over 12 years. Brady has 235 over 16 years.

    You can't compare. It's apples and oranges.

    You could sense the whole team this week playing tight. And as the game got away from them they got tighter, right across the board. That's something that only time and experience in these kind of games will cure.

    In my opinion in these situations it's experience that matters the most and at this point we also need to remember that Gruden is a young head coach too. His levels of game experience cannot compare to the likes of those mentioned above.

    I know there are always exceptions to the rule. There are rookies setting the league on fire, there are new head coaches sending their teams to the playoffs. But these are the exceptions rather than the rules.

    You want success in the NFL, the best way to do it is to cultivate it and it takes years. We should know that, we've learnt the hard way.

    The last time this team was long term successful and won superbowls was when we had Joe Gibbs. He was our head coach for 11 years. We had stability and consistency. That bred success.

    Since then we've spent 24 years on the HC merry go around and surprise surprise had almost zero long term success.

    I know we all want to be a great and successful team right now, and these kind of losses are frustrating. But they are also learning experiences for a team that has only just righted itself and replotted it's course. NFL seasons are a contradiction in terms. They move so slow yet so fast. We're almost at the end of another season, another year gone by... but that's just 16 games in the life of a team. Just 16 times when experience is learned for our organisation.

    Honestly I think we need to stay this course, as frustrating as it may be to hang in there. We're on the verge of 2 winning seasons in a row. When was the last time we did that?
    We're 2 games left in the season and we're not ruled out of the playoffs yet for the second year in a row. When was the last time that happened?
    This year we played a Division Champs schedule and we got screwed by the schedulers and yet we're still on course to post a Win/Loss record on a par with last year pretty much.
    It's plain to see (for me at least) that this team is better than last year. And it's STRIDES ahead of where we were just 2 years ago.

    We're trending up. That's been evident all year. We're rarely flat, we always fight, we are almost always in games. Only 1 game this year that I feel like we were just out of, and that was our opener in Pittsburgh.
    I stayed up to watch almost the whole game on Monday, why? Because this year I've seen this team strike FAST to score points and never give up, even if we lose. I couldn't go to bed knowing we were only 11 points down and that at any moment a long TD pass to DJax could change the game entirely. And while Dusty has slumped this year, last year he was money on every kick, that beast is in him. If I'd have woken up Tuesday and seen a headline that said that Cousins to DJax for the score, 2 point conversion and a late FG by Hopkins to send us to OT for the win... I wouldn't have been surprised, and I'd have kicked myself for not watching.

    Honestly this team has demonstrated the capability for that kind of playmaking all year, even if it is inconsistent on that front.

    What we're seeing is growing pains. And those growing pains are being amplified because of the time of year and the playoff hopes we have had.
    This team isn't ready to compete yet, there are too many holes, we all know it. But this offense also gave us hope and when it doesn't fire on all cylinders we feel let down.

    I'm confident that this off season we're going to start plugging some of the holes on Defense.
    I know it's along time to wait, but if we're still having these problems in 2018, then I'll start banging on the drum to replace Gruden and co. Till then I just want to see a mature organisation for the first time since the early 90's.

    Also this week, after watching that game again, I'm not gonna scapegoat Joe Barry. This week was mostly on the Offense. Yes the Defense was bad as usual, but in pure terms our Defense only really conceded 16 points. The other 10 were gifted by the offense. The Interception gave them 3pts (but I'd credit the Defense for holding them to the 3pts) and the other TD came after we gave them the ball on our goal line. Holding a team to 16 points should be enough for even a mediocre offense to win the game. But on the day, our Offense managed 15 points and pretty much gave the Panthers 10.

    It was just one of those days for an Offense that usually plays well. We've averaged 25 pts per game coming in to this contest. The Defense did enough for us to win it if the Offense had been even average.

    Just my two cents.
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    Knight, I think a lot of us see a lot of similarities between Jay and Norv. And that's not a good thing. Continuity is a good thing, unless you are continuously mediocre. Gruden's teams got to the playoffs in Cincy and that's all (I realize Marvin Lewis is the HC, but we're constantly told about how much Arena League success Jay has had, so I thought it might be germaine).

    If we lose the last two games, I think there's a pretty decent chance McLov's changes over the whole coaching staff. If we don't make the playoffs, Barry is gone, imo. If we make the playoffs and win a game, I think he stays.

    I believe that is the formula.

    I'm fine with letting Jay grow; at this point I'm ambivalent about keeping him. I think he CAN learn from his mistakes, but I'm not sure he will. That playcall at the start of the second half was just Godawful. And at this point, I don't give a shit who's job it is to call the plays (Callahan, McVay, Gruden), someone should sacrifice a chicken if that's what it takes to get them to realize we need to run the ball.
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    We love to cite Joe Gibbs in a host of discussions, but here the plain fact remains that Gibbs had the Redskins in the Super Bowl in Year 2.

    And that was without working in the era of free agency where he could just go out and get a pass rushing DE or a solid OT, etc.

    The coach and GM work in concert.

    Gibbs and Beathard worked well together because there WAS friction. They had healthy disagreements and that lead to better decisions than if we were just listening to one voice.

    The players WERE afraid they were going to be judged on their performances. We had rookies that came in and started right away, #5 and #6 draft picks just like New England does now.

    In 1981, Gibbs' first year here we had Joe Jacoby (undrafted free agent), Russ Grimm (#3 draft pick) starting and Darryl Grant (#9 pick) and Dexter Manley (#5 pick) playing significant roles and advancing to being starters in 1982.

    I didn't see the same kind of mass confusion and lack of execution with those younger players getting their first taste of NFL action that we see here.

    I could see and Chris Cooley mentioned this morning that on defense players in the Carolina game at times had no idea where to line up or what their responsibilities were.

    Martrell Spaight, in his second year with the team, was repeatedly out of position - one one play raising his arms up to his shoulders in a shrug to Mason Foster indicating he had no idea what he was supposed to do on a certain play, etc.

    That is NOT acceptable and I don't put all the blame on Spaight either.

    Barry and the coaches are supposed to be teaching these players the scheme in the offseason and preseason. By Week 14 of the regular season Spaight should know where to go when a specific defense is called.

    Dunbar is another younger player that Cooley indicated in film reviews seem to have no idea how to play certain coverages.

    On one particularly egregious play, Donte Whitner, a 9 year veteran, was supposed to cover the receiver to the inside while Josh Norman had him on the outside and for some reason Whitner looked back at the qb, determined the ball was going elsewhere and stopped running.

    Newton threw the ball to the inside to that receiver and Norman had to make a TD saving tackle.

    From what Cooley said, Norman was barking at Whitner after the play was over and pointing to where he was supposed to be.

    To me that looks like an entire unit that is not GETTING IT.

    And the responsibility for that starts at the top.

    In New England the team trades Jamie Collins and a rookie Elandon Roberts goes into the starting defense and seems to know his assignments.

    Roberts is not more talented than Spaight in terms of physical ability and was selected like Martrell in the 5th round.

    What's the difference?

    Since the coaches here said Spaight was a bright player and had a good work ethic, then it must come back on THEM for not getting him ready.

    The NFL has changed over the years.

    Gone are the days where quarterbacks go 4-5 years as starters before they 'get it'. No one has that long to show what they can do.

    It may take that 4-5 years for a quarterback to ascend to being elite, but players have to show they can help a team win sooner rather than later.

    Rookies at other positions, such as running back, linebacker and wide receiver are often asked to start right away in the NFL these days due to salary cap issues or injuries to key veterans.

    Look at Michael Thomas in New Orleans. The Saints took him a round later than the Redskins took Doctson and he has filled the shoes of Marques Colston who left the Saints after last season.

    As I posted in another thread, it really pisses me off when the Redskins say they are looking for safeties but none are available.

    Well, the Giants found Landon Collins dropping out of the first round in 2015 and moved up in Round 2 to take a player that was rated a top 15 talent by the scouts pre-draft.

    The Redskins were sitting there with a better second round pick to trade and allowed a fellow NFC East team to nab him.

    Now, he looks like a 10 year starter for them with pro bowl ability.

    We didn't have to suffer the last 2 years with Dashon Goldson and Donte Whitner, two has-beens playing that one safety spot.

    Again, another case of a rookie that came in and played almost right away.
    Last edited by Bulldog; 12-22-16 at 10:04 AM.
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    Wowsers, ok, gonna take this bit by bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    We love to cite Joe Gibbs in a host of discussions, but here the plain fact remains that Gibbs had the Redskins in the Super Bowl in Year 2.

    And that was without working in the era of free agency where he could just go out and get a pass rushing DE or a solid OT, etc.
    All true... but don't take Gibbs years in a bubble. Look at the decade or more preceding his tenure. From 1971 all the way up through the George Allen years and the Jack PArdee years we had 1 losing season. Just 1. In 1980.
    Gibbs was taking over a team with a good organisation and a winning culture.

    This is NOT what Gruden inherited, He inherited a team that had what 5 winning seasons in 24 years or something. So to judge him after only a couple of years is premature. We all underestimate how BAD this franchise had become. To heal the patient first thing you've got to do is stop the blood loss, and that's what he and Scotty have done.

    My point was that a team needs stability to recover. All we've done over the past 24 years is continuously rock the boat and then look shocked as we still take on water.

    In my opinion that has to stop. If we change coaching staff AGAIN this year we're right back to square one again. This is not a team with a winning culture and expecting a coaching staff to come in and turn us into a Superbowl team in 2 years is crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    The coach and GM work in concert.

    Gibbs and Beathard worked well together because there WAS friction. They had healthy disagreements and that lead to better decisions than if we were just listening to one voice.

    The players WERE afraid they were going to be judged on their performances. We had rookies that came in and started right away, #5 and #6 draft picks just like New England does now.

    In 1981, Gibbs' first year here we had Joe Jacoby (undrafted free agent), Russ Grimm (#3 draft pick) starting and Darryl Grant (#9 pick) and Dexter Manley (#5 pick) playing significant roles and advancing to being starters in 1982.
    Agreed, but we really don't know what goes on behind the privacy of closed doors at Redskins park. Expecting Gru and Scotty to be the modern day Gibbs and Bearthard is wrong. They are different people. Scotty has a track record of putting together decent teams with time.

    I also still don't really buy the fear excuse.

    Playing for the Redskins back then was a matter of PRIDE. Just as it is for the Patriots today.

    New players joining the Patriots are joining a professional team with a long term tradition of winning behind a stable coaching staff and an all-pro QB. You join that atmosphere the last thing you want to be is the weak link. It's also a team where you know coming in that you're not going to be the saviour of the franchise or the best player on the roster. They have those. If you're any player worth your salt you work your ass off to stay on that team and that's the difference.

    You join the Redskins you're joining a team with 20+ years of futility, a losing culture and a horribly unstable management and coaching structure. Are you REALLY going to be giving your best for a team like that?

    We need to BADLY change the culture here. And I think that's happening. I see players with much more pride these days. We're not their yet, we're not a perenially successful franchise yet, but I think these guys sense that they're on the cusp, that this team with this management etc is going somewhere.

    And we haven't been that kind of team in a LOOOOOOOONG time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    I didn't see the same kind of mass confusion and lack of execution with those younger players getting their first taste of NFL action that we see here.

    I could see and Chris Cooley mentioned this morning that on defense players in the Carolina game at times had no idea where to line up or what their responsibilities were.

    Martrell Spaight, in his second year with the team, was repeatedly out of position - one one play raising his arms up to his shoulders in a shrug to Mason Foster indicating he had no idea what he was supposed to do on a certain play, etc.

    That is NOT acceptable and I don't put all the blame on Spaight either.

    Barry and the coaches are supposed to be teaching these players the scheme in the offseason and preseason. By Week 14 of the regular season Spaight should know where to go when a specific defense is called.

    ((((Some other good stuff!)))).

    To me that looks like an entire unit that is not GETTING IT.

    And the responsibility for that starts at the top.
    That said you're ABSOLUTELY right here. This defense lacks talent. Sorely. But this defense also has more talent than is showing on the field.

    It's sloppy and messy and undisciplined and that's a real problem.

    Yes they make stop sometimes and make good plays. The telling stat to me is how we're something like bottom of the league in Yards conceded, but middle of the pack in points conceded.

    This to me points to a Defense that has no real gameplan or structure, that blows coverages and assignments but sometimes of what little sheer talent we've got on that side of the ball, manages to pull off a crucial stop.
    Case in point was the Kerrigan strip sack in Philly. I had no confidence that the defense could hold Philly out of the endzone, it only did so because of a good play by Kerrigan. But that was one play on the whole drive. They were marching almost unopposed till then.

    We can't rely on what are almost fluke plays to hold our defense. That points per game stat is almost a fluke. It SHOULD be alot worse.

    And responsibility for that lies with Barry in my mind.

    Less so that with Scotty or Gru.

    The reason? I see the plan and it's pretty much the same thing I'd do.

    Years 1 & 2 - Shore up the Offense so we stay competitive and give Kirk time to prove himself and grow in the system. In the meantime do what we can to fill gaps in the Defense and hope that some of our young players step up and develop.

    Years 3 & 4 - Use draft picks and FA to shore up the Defense while the Offense continues to mature. By year 4 the team should be pretty balanced and we can start to compete.

    I think we just saw year 2, and the plan is on schedule.

    It's too much to try and fix all problems all over the team at the same time. It's lke fixing a broken boat. If you start trying to plug the leaks and fix the engine at the same time all you're doing is diluting the effort and the boats still gonna sink. So the first thing you do is fix the holes and keep the boat afloat. Then you fix the engine. Now your chugging somewhere.

    I don't thing Scotty or Gru expected our Defense to be earth-shatteringly good this year. But I do think they expected better than bottom of the league. The mistake was hiring Joe Barry who has taken admittedly sub par talent and made it in some instances worse.

    Breeland has regressed. Some of that is on him, but you gotta out some blame on Barry for it too. He should have been in Bree's ears from day 1.

    Smith and Cravens have obvious talent, but Barry doesn't seem to be getting the most out of them, and I worry that's a trend.

    I think regardless how this year plays out Gruden is safe, but Barry is gone. If we're going to spend draft picks over the next two years on Defense then we need a Coach with a track record of developing talent on that side of the ball, and Barry isn't that man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    The NFL has changed over the years.

    Gone are the days where quarterbacks go 4-5 years as starters before they 'get it'. No one has that long to show what they can do.

    It may take that 4-5 years for a quarterback to ascend to being elite, but players have to show they can help a team win sooner rather than later.

    Rookies at other positions, such as running back, linebacker and wide receiver are often asked to start right away in the NFL these days due to salary cap issues or injuries to key veterans.

    Look at Michael Thomas in New Orleans. The Saints took him a round later than the Redskins took Doctson and he has filled the shoes of Marques Colston who left the Saints after last season.
    Honestly I think this has been a combination of things, but fan and media pressure seems to be a big factor.

    In an age of social media and High Def TV, there is alot of pressure to keep bums on seats in stadiums. In order to do that you have to have a saleable product, which generally means a competitive team to sell tickets.

    Which in turn means that Teams jump at any chance they can to cheat the system and turn the team around as fast as possible.

    And you're right, the salary cap has just exacerbated the problem as you have a limited window of time where your talent doesn't break the bank forcing you to make tough decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    As I posted in another thread, it really pisses me off when the Redskins say they are looking for safeties but none are available.

    Well, the Giants found Landon Collins dropping out of the first round in 2015 and moved up in Round 2 to take a player that was rated a top 15 talent by the scouts pre-draft.

    The Redskins were sitting there with a better second round pick to trade and allowed a fellow NFC East team to nab him.

    Now, he looks like a 10 year starter for them with pro bowl ability.

    We didn't have to suffer the last 2 years with Dashon Goldson and Donte Whitner, two has-beens playing that one safety spot.

    Again, another case of a rookie that came in and played almost right away.
    Yeah it's annoying, but I truly honestly believe that Defense was not on their radar this past year. The last two years have been all about the offense for the reasons mentioned above. We're rebuilding but still need to sell tickets and put bums on seats and keep the media as quiet as we can. Best way to do that if so show some offensive fireworks and stay competitive.

    Mission accomplished.

    In fact, it was probably accomplished a little too well because we've stayed in the playoff hunt well into the latter stages of the season, which to be honest I don't truly think the team was expecting in all honesty

    Our agenda from day 1 was very different to the Giants. We wanted to put a good offense on the field to keep interest in the team high. The Giants were always going to be on a defensive spend. I think you'll see that script flip this off season. We're the Giants just a couple of years later.

    They built an offense around Beckham, Cruz, Jennings and Manning that they figured could compete. Then built a Defense to complement it.

    We've just done the offense (and done a better job as I think our O-line is way better and our receiver corps is stronger!). This year we start work on the defense.

    I'm not ready to write off players like Fuller and Spaight just yet. I want to see them in year 2 under the tutelage of a GOOD DC. Look at the strides our O Line took under Callahan. I know we have pro-bowl talent that in Trent and Scherff now, but we'd also admit that we need better players at LG and C. But even so we've had one of the best O-Lines in the league!

    We need someone on the defensive side that can do for or players on that side of the ball, what Callahan did for our O-line.

    I give alot of credit to Gruden for turning this franchise around after the ShanaClan disaster.
    I give Callahan a LOAD of credit for molding this O-Line.
    I give Cavanaugh alot of credit for how far Kirk has come.
    Indeed there's alot of credit to go around...

    The offense usually looks slick and operational. Ok so it sometimes has bad days, every team does. But on the whole 95% of the time it looks good.

    But as I said earlier, you're absolutely right that the Defense has floundered all year. It fails the eye test every week, it never gets better... just seems to either tread water or get worse. And what's worse is the players seem equally frustrated by it. It looks to me like a defense that's playing off natural talent and no scheme, like a bunch of players who have no idea what they're supposed to be doing or where they're supposed to be, so are just trying their best and winging it. (Maybe that's over exaggerating, but it looks terrible to my eye.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Knight, I think a lot of us see a lot of similarities between Jay and Norv. And that's not a good thing. Continuity is a good thing, unless you are continuously mediocre. Gruden's teams got to the playoffs in Cincy and that's all (I realize Marvin Lewis is the HC, but we're constantly told about how much Arena League success Jay has had, so I thought it might be germaine).

    If we lose the last two games, I think there's a pretty decent chance McLov's changes over the whole coaching staff. If we don't make the playoffs, Barry is gone, imo. If we make the playoffs and win a game, I think he stays.

    I believe that is the formula.

    I'm fine with letting Jay grow; at this point I'm ambivalent about keeping him. I think he CAN learn from his mistakes, but I'm not sure he will. That playcall at the start of the second half was just Godawful. And at this point, I don't give a shit who's job it is to call the plays (Callahan, McVay, Gruden), someone should sacrifice a chicken if that's what it takes to get them to realize we need to run the ball.
    That's the point though Goal, we're not continuously mediocre. You want to see that, go back and watch the 2013 season again! Since then we've progressively got better every year. It's not quantum leaps but it's steps forward rather than back. Even if we finish this year 8-7-1 and miss the playoffs I'd be happy that this team is better than last years. We're been competitive ever single week except that season opener. Even the Panthers didn't whup us last week despite our playing as bad as we've played all year.

    If you just simply look at the rise in the standard of our divisional rivals you can see how much tougher our slate has been this year than last. Last year we played in the NFC Least. This year even the Eagles are fiesty and the Cowboys and the Giants look pretty good. That's 6 games already this year that were much tougher than last year.

    I think regardless of what happens over the next couple of weeks we won't see a wholesale change.

    As fans we tend to live in the moment. Season happen so slowly and we're not involved in the long term strategy of the team. For Scotty and Gru I guarantee this has always been a multiyear plan. Somewhere there is a big whiteboard or chart with the next four or five years mapped out in order to get the Redskins back to contention. This is an exercise in ticking off steps. As fans we rarely think like that, we're all about the cause and effect. But for Scotty especially it's about the bigger picture.

    I wouldn't bet on Barry being around next year...

    But I think Scotty is aware this is a multiyear plan. I also think he's pretty happy with the direction of the offense and of the team. Next year might be different. I suspect on whatever whiteboard he has in his office 'Playoff Contention' has been circled for 2017. It was a bonus this year brought on by our offense over achieving.
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    The Barry selection reflects Gruden's judgement of talent.

    And, for the record, I think Barry has done halfway decent with the plate of talent he has been served. Gruden, on the other hand, with all the expensive toys, has his vaunted system struggle more than they should. I don't think any phase of the team performs worse than the joke he's created in the running game. The man has a disdain for running the ball. Which many ex-QB's do. After 3 years, we have a running attack that is far worse than what he inherited.

    I get the whole continuity thing. Hell, I preach as much as anyone. But after 3 years, our running attack is the worst I remember in 45+ years of diehard fandom. And our stat happy passing offense sputters mightily with the loss of any one of our top receivers.

    So, as of today, I'm still not advocating firing Gruden and most of his staff. But I'll not shed a tear if it happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    The Barry selection reflects Gruden's judgement of talent.

    And, for the record, I think Barry has done halfway decent with the plate of talent he has been served. Gruden, on the other hand, with all the expensive toys, has his vaunted system struggle more than they should. I don't think any phase of the team performs worse than the joke he's created in the running game. The man has a disdain for running the ball. Which many ex-QB's do. After 3 years, we have a running attack that is far worse than what he inherited.

    I get the whole continuity thing. Hell, I preach as much as anyone. But after 3 years, our running attack is the worst I remember in 45+ years of diehard fandom. And our stat happy passing offense sputters mightily with the loss of any one of our top receivers.

    So, as of today, I'm still not advocating firing Gruden and most of his staff. But I'll not shed a tear if it happens.
    On the flip side he did bring Callahan on board. And a bunch of other coaches who have worked out.

    As I said above, I watch our D and it's a unit that seems to try and get by on what little talent they have instead of being a unit that strives to be more than the sum of it's parts. I put that on Barry.

    As for Gruden...

    I'd be sad to see him go. He's done alot for this franchise.

    But you're right about that running game. Ugh! I don't know whether it's him or McVay, but at the end of the day the buck stops with Gruden.

    I can see the temptation. We've a high powered passing game. We've multiple weapons and a QB who can put up over 400yrds per game. We have a O-line that doesn't give up sacks and our Defense is so terrible that we need points in a hurry. The passing temptation is a strong one...

    But we NEED balance and we don't have it 90% of the time.

    I'm holding out hope that we can maybe plug the remaining holes in the O-Line, that we can now settle on FatRob going forward into next year and that in the offseason GruVay takes on board what happened this year and makes a decision to go for balance.

    To be fair though... if we were winning big and had a 12-2 record at this point off a blitzkrieg air attack we wouldn't be complaining. LOL

    There's a small part of me that wouldn't mind if McVay was headhunted this offseason anyway... I do wonder how much is McVay, how much is Gruden and how much is Cousins at the line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    The Barry selection reflects Gruden's judgement of talent.

    And, for the record, I think Barry has done halfway decent with the plate of talent he has been served. Gruden, on the other hand, with all the expensive toys, has his vaunted system struggle more than they should. I don't think any phase of the team performs worse than the joke he's created in the running game. The man has a disdain for running the ball. Which many ex-QB's do. After 3 years, we have a running attack that is far worse than what he inherited.

    I get the whole continuity thing. Hell, I preach as much as anyone. But after 3 years, our running attack is the worst I remember in 45+ years of diehard fandom. And our stat happy passing offense sputters mightily with the loss of any one of our top receivers.

    So, as of today, I'm still not advocating firing Gruden and most of his staff. But I'll not shed a tear if it happens.
    I was going to counter with Trung Canidate in 2003, but then I looked and we may end up with less rushing yards this year....

    Higher YPC though, and Kelly only needs 5 yards to surpass the leading rusher that year. The sad part is that it is even close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shi no Tenshi View Post
    I was going to counter with Trung Canidate in 2003, but then I looked and we may end up with less rushing yards this year....

    Higher YPC though, and Kelly only needs 5 yards to surpass the leading rusher that year. The sad part is that it is even close.
    I think if we're comparing Gruden with Spurrier, we're making Ax's point for him.

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    Comparing Gruden to Spurrier, in any way, is an insult to the intelligence of our members. I'm not sure why some seem to want to blow it all up - there is tangible progress. Some of this is an overreaction to the most recent performances.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    BB, are we keeping Matt Jones around just til the end of the season, only in case there's injuries ?
    Or does he actually get one more look next year ?
    The last few weeks should tell you that he won't be around next year. We are probably hoping for a trade - a late round pick for him, but that is very unlikely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    This brings me to a question...

    The first mock draft will come shortly after the FA blog. Would you prefer to have a video accompany the prospects we mock or would you prefer a list of possible candidates ranked in order that are not mocked for each selection - in addition to the player listed? I can't do both as that is very time consuming.

    I have been looking at prospects since mid October and will continue to do so until the draft arrives. Any other suggestions will be considered. Your input is highly valued.
    A little help here...
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    In the 3rd year of a coaching regime that has given plenty of lip service to running the ball, while mostly ignoring it on gameday...the state of our running attack is a joke. It resembles the first few games of a new system, more than one that's 3 years old. Even if you only count the last 2 seasons, when Gruden went to his running attack. The remnants of Shamahan's run system in year 1 of the Gruden era has been our best of the Gruden era.

    Our super-stat passing attack fades like a sun scorched wood floor once it gets to the 20yd line. And drops to average, or below, with the loss of a single top receiver. We are constantly outcoached. Play calling, both offensively, and defensively, too often produces WTF moments at the worst possible times.

    We look like a poorly prepared, undisciplined group of players. Led by coaches that look the same.

    If Scot decides to retain Gruden, I'm fine with that. If not, I'm fine with that too.
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