A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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  1. #1

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    Default I'll say it - Suisham got a raw deal.

    We'll regret cutting Shaun Suisham.

    It was a mistake. Kickers are notorious for taking a little time to develop. Not only was Suisham a great team guy and one of the better guys on this Redskins team over the past few years, but before he got Gano, he was developing into an extremely reliable kicker.

    We're going to miss that in the next 3 years.

    All kickers miss one occasionally. Lets be honest - Suisham was a convenient scapegoat in a year where we wanted someone to pay for our mass suckitude. Was it satisfying to boot his ass to the curb after a game-losing miss?

    Absolutely.

    Was it the smart move? No. I don't think so. And I'll bet that position will be validated in the coming years as Suisham develops further into a rock solid kicker for some other team, while we continue to shuffle through recycled kickers for some time to come.

    Have at me
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  2. #2
    kirbster
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    Usually a kicker developing into a good one requires changing teams. Rarely do you find one that develops over time with a particular team. Suisham was not a clutch kicker for us, never was, like never would've been. Will he become clutch for Dallas? Who knows. He made the easy kicks, but the hard ones (whether from distance or time in game) were more misses than hits. He's a great kicker for when the kick doesn't mean anything: you're either way ahead or way behind and the kick makes no difference to the game. But when the game's on the line and you desperately need that kick, Sushi is one of the last kickers you want in there.
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    I read a lot of comments about Campbell not having "it".

    IMO, neither does Suisham.
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    Umm, your theory is great and all, except that Shazzam has been in the league awhile already, AND in different locales.

    At some point you have to cut bait if someone is underperforming...and for NFL kickers, missing a 23-yard game winning field goal after missing a GWer and several other kicks the previous weeks is that point.
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    Weren't kickoffs a problem for him as well? How is he going to fix that.....leg transplant?
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    I think I can make a strong case that we should've kept him. And the facts don't support dumping him based on one missed kick.

    Here are the facts:

    1. Suisham has gotten more accurate with experience (and was inarguably improving):
    2005 - made 75% of his FGs
    2006 - made 81.8% of his FGs
    2007 - made 82.9% of his FGs
    2008 - took a step back making 72.2% of his FGs (he attempted twice as many 50 yard+ FGs as in any other year)
    2009 - made 85.7% of his FGs (so far)

    2. Suisham was improving at every distance, every year:
    20-29 yards
    Career: 96.6%
    2009: 96.6%

    30-39 yards
    Career: 81.3%
    2009: 83%

    40-49 yards
    Career: 74%
    2009: 100%

    50-50+ yards
    Career: 29%
    2009: missed only attempt

    The worst thing you could say about Suisham is that he didn't have the long leg, although to be fair, he has only been given 7 opportunities to kick 50+ or more yards. Ironically, missing a short kick cost him his job, although he's been very accurate from that range.

    BTW, Suisham's been with only 2 teams (Dallas and us) and 2009 was his 4th year - exactly when you'd expect him to start becoming the kicker he will ultimately be, and exactly when he WAS doing so. Bottom line, we fired a kicker who was one of the few Redskins in 2009 demonstrating marked improvement.

    I don't see how that makes sense.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Umm, your theory is great and all, except that Shazzam has been in the league awhile already, AND in different locales.

    At some point you have to cut bait if someone is underperforming...and for NFL kickers, missing a 23-yard game winning field goal after missing a GWer and several other kicks the previous weeks is that point.
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    Did we fire him in every preceding year? No - we didn't
    He was improving in every category in 2009, save 50+ yarders (he only had one attempt which he missed).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeypeet View Post
    Weren't kickoffs a problem for him as well? How is he going to fix that.....leg transplant?
    That's a valid question. But we didn't fire him based on his ability to kickoff. We fired him for missing a gimme field goal.
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    I dunno, maybe you're right, Boone. Maybe we just gave the Cowboys the next Matt Stover. But I have a feeling, he needed to be cut again if that is true, and would have continued to suck at clutch kicks for us if we didn't cut him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    We'll regret cutting Shaun Suisham.

    It was a mistake. Kickers are notorious for taking a little time to develop. Not only was Suisham a great team guy and one of the better guys on this Redskins team over the past few years, but before he got Gano, he was developing into an extremely reliable kicker.

    We're going to miss that in the next 3 years.

    All kickers miss one occasionally. Lets be honest - Suisham was a convenient scapegoat in a year where we wanted someone to pay for our mass suckitude. Was it satisfying to boot his ass to the curb after a game-losing miss?

    Absolutely.

    Was it the smart move? No. I don't think so. And I'll bet that position will be validated in the coming years as Suisham develops further into a rock solid kicker for some other team, while we continue to shuffle through recycled kickers for some time to come.

    Have at me
    What's interesting to me, Boone, is that this same debate is going on in that Packers fan forum I visit, about Mason Crosby. The Packer FO and coaches have stated that they have, at this moment, no intention of dumping Crosby as their kicker and the thread-which started 6 days ago and now has 83 posts(!) is a hot debate going back and forth on this very issue. Crosby has developed an apparent tendency to do the same sort of thing everyone here-and on other Skins boards-got so upset about, that of missing what could be considered makeable FGs in make-or-break game situations.

    Whether or not Suisham turns out to be a reliable FG kicker for another team can, I believe, be measured most effectively by how his situational performance differs from the situational performance here. If he continues to have a lower percentage of FGs made in situations where the game is effectively "on the line", in other words obvious pressure situations-especially if the FGs are in a range at which he has displayed previous reliability-then there is something there that is reducing his effectiveness when it's most needed-kind of like having "yips" when putting. If, on the other hand, his performance improves with another team then that may point to an external cause-perhaps something to do with the stress the team has been under due to "difficult" circumstances this season.

    Bottom line, I am unable to offer any conjecture or counter-conjecture about whether Suisham's release was a good or bad idea-I simply have no information to go on yet.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

  11. #11
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    Cowboys fired him once, I won't be surprised if they fire him again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    That's a valid question. But we didn't fire him based on his ability to kickoff. We fired him for missing a gimme field goal.
    I know it. However, I question his ability to be a long term viable option for a team with his kickoff deficiencies. That will alway be an issue for him and a reason a team might look to replace him.

    Guys have been able to last in this league without a leg for kickoffs I guess but not only does he need to overcome that but also his performance in the clutch (which is the bigger issue). For that reason I wouldn't expect him to become a rock solid kicker for another team.
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    No-one likes Suisham more than me. He is a great guy.

    But let's face it, he arguably cost the Redskins two games this year.
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    I know this thread is about Suisham and field goals, and I liked the guy, but even in a game we won against Denver, two kickoffs by Shazam went out of bounds and Denver got it at the 40.

    Two kickoffs out of bounds? In the same game? How do you do that??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappas View Post
    No-one likes Suisham more than me. He is a great guy.

    But let's face it, he arguably cost the Redskins two games this year.
    I'm not crying any tears over Suisham, but for the sake of argument I'll point out that he arguably won the Redskins two games this year as well. (St. Louis and Denver.) Let's not forget that for half the season he basically was our offense. I find it hard to blame Suisham that our offense was SO bad that we had to count on him for every single point we scored against Dallas. We don't deserve to win games like that anyway. The only game I could truly look at and say "that's on Suisham" is the NO game. That's a kick you gotta make. That's a kick that would have me bring in competition in the offseason.

    But firing him mid-season? That's just because it was easy to make him the scapegoat for a lousy season. If a bad play here and there were reason to cut someone, we wouldn't be able to field a team this year.
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    Default

    Suisham is 27 years old. Develop?

    Suisham has shown himself to be a streaky kicker whose performance varies from season to season.

    And what is worse he has shown a propensity to miss 'pressure' kicks in the second half of games that the team simply needed to have.

    I don't know when you get down to that 'mental' block of missing under pressure that is something you 'work through'.

    A lot of guys have this problem and causes them to have to find a new line of work.
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    Spilled milk.

    He's a Cowboy now. **** him eternally.

    Do your job, you don't get fired.

    Kickoffs sucked. Never felt like any kick was a gimme with him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I'm not crying any tears over Suisham, but for the sake of argument I'll point out that he arguably won the Redskins two games this year as well. (St. Louis and Denver.) Let's not forget that for half the season he basically was our offense. I find it hard to blame Suisham that our offense was SO bad that we had to count on him for every single point we scored against Dallas. We don't deserve to win games like that anyway. The only game I could truly look at and say "that's on Suisham" is the NO game. That's a kick you gotta make. That's a kick that would have me bring in competition in the offseason.
    Not buying it. You say we didn't deserve to win that game? I say our defense deserved to walk off the field knowing that they played one hell of a game against a top ranked offense and should have put a W on the board.

    I agree that the bottom line is Dallas would not have had the chance to win at the end of the game if our offense had scored just one TD on the four scoring chances we had, but Suisham bears a great deal of responsibility for that loss!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Suisham is 27 years old. Develop?

    Suisham has shown himself to be a streaky kicker whose performance varies from season to season.

    And what is worse he has shown a propensity to miss 'pressure' kicks in the second half of games that the team simply needed to have.

    I don't know when you get down to that 'mental' block of missing under pressure that is something you 'work through'.

    A lot of guys have this problem and causes them to have to find a new line of work.
    The 'pressure thing' is certainly a valid argument. But his performance hasn't been inconsistent - except for the 2008 season (when again, he was asked to attempt more very long kicks than in other seasons), he's gotten better and more consistent every year. That's a fact.

    And even if you're correct, holding Suisham accountable for blowing it in pressure situations, while holding no other Redskin to that level of expectation - at best its hypocritical. The counter argument is that, in mid-range kicks (where btw the vast majority of attempts are made), he was money in 2009.
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