A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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  1. #1
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    Default ESPN 980 Mortenson: Shanahan To Skins Almost Done

    Mot indicated on the am radio show that Mike and the Redskins were finishing up negotiations in regards to setting his contract value based in part on some deferred comp from Denver that Mike would be losing by taking another HC job in the NFL.

    He also said that Bruce Allen's hiring was suggested as a precondition by Mike 3 months ago and that Shanahan isn't planning on waiting for other openings,ie Dallas to come available.
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    At this point Terry Robiskie was on more solid footing in 2000 than Jim Zorn is now. Expect a couple more blowouts.

    As far as this (supposed) hire goes, I hope this is a real GM/HC set-up and not window dressing. I'm not thrilled with the idea that the GM was hired to lure a coach here. That sounds like classic Dan Snyder doing whatever he has to to get his big-name prize, and not any sound change in front office philosophy.
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    Virginia Tech

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    Henry,

    A valid concern, to be sure ... but for the Allen hire to be "window dressing" in luring Shanahan, Allen would have to have been pretty clueless. Given the impression of Snyder "out there" as a meddling owner, an established pro like Bruce Allen would be pretty unlikely to accept a position where he had any real doubt that he was being hired to be an independent thinker.

    Allen may or may not turn out to be a great hire, but I feel pretty comfortable that it will turn on his actual performance in the job, not on the degree to which Dan Snyder's hand is up his ... um, puppeteer's cavity.

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    I don't know about that Om. One thing we can say about Snyder is that he's an excellent salesman. If anyone in this league knows how to get his man, it's Dan.

    Also, wasn't Allen out of work at the time? Was he really some hot commodity we had to lure from anywhere? He wasn't on my radar until we hired him so I don't know.

    I'm not saying Allen is incapable, but the weak GM/strong coach/Dan Snyder trifecta has been done here before. I was hoping for something a little less us this time around.
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    Allen was fired in January ... without going back and seeing what teams were in teh market for a GM heading into 2009, I can't really speak to why he was available now.

    I will say that seeing you equate Bruce Allen--or any actual NFL GM for that matter--with Vinny Cerrato has me thinking someone slipped some decaf into your coffee this morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    At this point Terry Robiskie was on more solid footing in 2000 than Jim Zorn is now. Expect a couple more blowouts.
    As long as Fred "Fantasy God" Davis continues to score touchdowns, I don't care how badly we lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Allen was fired in January ... without going back and seeing what teams were in teh market for a GM heading into 2009, I can't really speak to why he was available now.

    I will say that seeing you equate Bruce Allen--or any actual NFL GM for that matter--with Vinny Cerrato has me thinking someone slipped some decaf into your coffee this morning.
    I wouldn't equate Allen with Cerrato any more than I'd equate Joe Gibbs with Jim Zorn.

    I don't think Allen was hired to be Snyder's yes-man. And that's a good thing.

    However, if he was hired to be Shanahan's yes-man ... that's not a good thing.

    All I'm saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I wouldn't equate Allen with Cerrato any more than I'd equate Joe Gibbs with Jim Zorn.

    I don't think Allen was hired to be Snyder's yes-man. And that's a good thing.

    However, if he was hired to be Shanahan's yes-man ... that's not a good thing.

    All I'm saying.
    No argument. That would blow.

    I just don't see Allen as a guy desperate, willing or naive enough to take a job with Dan Snyder if he wasn't pretty damn sure it wasn't the worst career move since David Caruso left NYPD Blue to become Emoter in Chief for the CSI franchise.

    All I'm saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I don't think Allen was hired to be Snyder's yes-man. And that's a good thing.

    However, if he was hired to be Shanahan's yes-man ... that's not a good thing.
    Henry, you just hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. I have always thought Shanahan was a good coach. It is his personnel skills that have me concerned and if Allen is here to be Mike's yes-man in that regard I see a lot of 7 to 9 win seasons in our future.
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    Also, let's not forget it's, you know, December.

    We're a long, long way from knowing what the actual personnel power structure will be, and that's even if we DO end up landing Shanahan. For one thing, there's been talk about another personnel guy joining the team as well.

    Obviously, IF Allen turns out to be nothing more than a newer, shinier model of VC, that has the potential for major suckitude. I just think assuming/worrying that that's going to be the case (if anyone's actually doing that) is a bit premature ... and maybe a bit unfair to Allen. I've seen nothing in my admittedly limited exposure to the man to indicate he's a shrinking violet or someone willing to be turned into a puppet.

    Then again, I'm a generally optimistic guy. I thought seeing Shoemaker-Levy lay waste to Jupiter would jump-start our species to get real about this really NEAT program.
    Last edited by Om; 12-23-09 at 11:38 AM.
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    Om, I think we agree on everything except our level of optimism.

    You think worrying/preparing for the worst is premature and unfair to Allen, whereas I think it's perfectly reasonable and to be expected of a team owned by Dan Snyder.

    I do appreciate and understand your optimism, but in the worlds of the immortal Clint Eastwood, "Sorry, I'm fresh out."

    I'm still in the I'll-believe-it-when-we-actually-win mode.
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    I think the important point here though is that the Redskins appear to be putting together a team in the front office and staff and not a group of individuals that don't know or trust each other and backbite as Vinny and Zorn did over the past two seasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    I think the important point here though is that the Redskins appear to be putting together a team in the front office and staff and not a group of individuals that don't know or trust each other and backbite as Vinny and Zorn did over the past two seasons.
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    I think that is AN important point. I wouldn't say it's THE important point.

    Any front office structure is a step up from what we've had, which is arguably the worst in the league. However, a step-up from horrible isn't necessarily 'good.' Gibbs supposedly having the final say on everything was a better system that Zorn and Vinnie and Snyder, but that didn't make it ideal.

    Shanahan's presence alone would make our front office light years better than it was, but again that doesn't make it great.

    I am not a big fan of hiring a specific GM for the sole purpose of attracting a specific coach, and knowing how our owner operates i wouldn't put it past him to do just that.
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    I do seem to recall reading that when Shanahan was talking to the Bills about the possibilities there that Allen was going to have to be part of the package if he were to consider taking the job.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    I think people here are a little too wedded to the Beathard hires Gibbs as an unknown model.

    The NFL has changed so that the role of almost EVERY head coach in personnel has been magnified.

    The key to success now is to have open communication between the front office and staff and have the necessary give and take based upon mutual respect.

    The basis of that respect is usually a history of success on an individual level.

    I think with Allen and Shanahan we will have that.
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    BD, I'm not wedded to the idea of anything other than Dan Snyder saying "I want this big shiny toy. What do I have to do to get it." Let's not pretend he doesn't have a history of doing that in the offseason.

    Ok, I'm sick of complaining. This is my last post in this thread.

    Pessimism is draining.
    Last edited by Henry; 12-23-09 at 12:26 PM.
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    I don't think the concern is unfounded Henry. Reports say Shanny was offered the job in March. That means this dope deal was in the making long before anyone heard the name Bruce Allen. It would not shock me in the least. It probably went down like this; First, the danny had a typical danny man crush on Shanny, since the rest of his mancrushes turned him down for being an asshole to work for. Second, the typical big wad of money was flashed to Shanny, but Shanny, seeing the carnage of the last ten years and the fate of almost every danny hired coach, was smart enough to make some demands

    One, evidently, was Bruce Allen. Two was probably a piece of paper signed in danny blood saying the danny would stay in his office and if he felt the need to play Madden, he had to do it with Allen and not Shanny

    The danny, knowing his chickens have come home to roost as far as name coaches go, agreed.

    The only alternative was to take a chance on a coordinator who may or may not be sucessful. Looking around the stadium at all the empty seats, seats that weren't going to be paid for next year, Turdblossom probably realized he had painted himself into a corner and gave away the farm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I don't think the concern is unfounded Henry. Reports say Shanny was offered the job in March. That means this dope deal was in the making long before anyone heard the name Bruce Allen. It would not shock me in the least. It probably went down like this; First, the danny had a typical danny man crush on Shanny, since the rest of his mancrushes turned him down for being an asshole to work for. Second, the typical big wad of money was flashed to Shanny, but Shanny, seeing the carnage of the last ten years and the fate of almost every danny hired coach, was smart enough to make some demands

    One, evidently, was Bruce Allen. Two was probably a piece of paper signed in danny blood saying the danny would stay in his office and if he felt the need to play Madden, he had to do it with Allen and not Shanny

    The danny, knowing his chickens have come home to roost as far as name coaches go, agreed.

    The only alternative was to take a chance on a coordinator who may or may not be sucessful. Looking around the stadium at all the empty seats, seats that weren't going to be paid for next year, Turdblossom probably realized he had painted himself into a corner and gave away the farm

    I'd say that was more fact than fiction.
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    Giving away the farm?

    In case folks haven't noticed it, the farm was about to be foreclosed on by the bank.

    What did Snyder ultimately give up?

    Shanahan's desire to work with a GM he is familiar with?

    Shanahan's desire to keep Dan hidden and out of the War Room on draft day?

    These are all positives as fas as I can see if that becomes the reality.

    Do I have a problem with Shanahan having a major voice in the room with Allen and the top scouts when it comes to making the top picks?

    Not as much as some of the rest of you do.

    This setup reminds me a lot of what Parcells has done in Miami, only Bill has stayed off the sideline.

    But there is a TEAM approach to personnel that includes not only Bill but Jeff Ireland and the scouting department along with Sparano.

    If Bill went back to the sidelines the structure would be an even closer parallel.

    What's amusing here is everyone is assuming the GM does all the acouting and evaluations.

    That's not the case and hasn't been the case for some time.

    Just because the scouting department here in Washington was de-emphasized during the Cerrato-Zorn years and before that perhaps as well doesn't mean that most other organizations don't extend the decision-making and input "tree" to these other levels.

    Watch Allen go out and get an Assistant GM that does nothing but manage the professional and college scouting operations.
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    If Shanny is hired, I wonder how they'll get by the Rooney rule, what with the published reports that both Gray and Blache have denied being interviewed for the position.
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