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With one trick play, Redskins Coach Jim Zorn shows defiance

Well, in Zorn's defense, Jaws analyzed all the game film, and said Zorn's playcalling was fine, it was the execution that was the problem. Obviously you have to take that with a grain of salt, cause Zorn was in charge of the personnel on the field, but still...

I'll be happy to have him gone though, that's for sure. He's clearly not a leader and motivator, which is what this team desperately needs.
 
In this case, I fully disagree with Jaws.

BINGO comes in being retired and out of the game and in this goofy, convoluted setup of Sherm/Sherm/Zorn/Campbell and is much better at determining flow and anticipating what the D is doing and using it against them.

We've scored more and with exception of the Giants game looked better as an offensive unit. Did Zorn as the playcaller ever lead the team to great than 30 points?

Sure, Zorn's plays might be sound but it was how and when he used them that failed miserably.
 
In this case, I fully disagree with Jaws.

BINGO comes in being retired and out of the game and in this goofy, convoluted setup of Sherm/Sherm/Zorn/Campbell and is much better at determining flow and anticipating what the D is doing and using it against them.

We've scored more and with exception of the Giants game looked better as an offensive unit. Did Zorn as the playcaller ever lead the team to great than 30 points?

Sure, Zorn's plays might be sound but it was how and when he used them that failed miserably.

Sometimes all it takes is "another set of eyes," lol.
 
Here's some more information on the legality of the "swinging gate," answers the questions Om had in another thread:

Monday night, the Washington Redskins took a page out of, well, someone's old-school playbook. They attempted to run the old "swinging gate" from a field goal (known to officials as "scrimmage kick") formation. From where I sit, the timing couldn't have been better. Not only do I believe we have never gone through the legalities of offensive formations yet in the Zebra Report (side note: I've been running this feature now for less than two seasons and I can't even remember if we've covered something or not. And I'm 31. Is this what aging is like?), but I've gotten a few e-mails about possible illegal formation infractions in the past couple weeks as well. It's like the karma police intervened and handed me Jim Zorn's coaching carcass on a silver platter.

Anyway, yes, obviously the swinging gate is a legal formation since nothing was called by the officials after they had a timeout to think about it. Since I received a few questions on the matter, we'll delve a little deeper into formation rules. We'll discuss that, some general guidelines and tackle two e-mails. Also, stay tuned even if you don't care about formation rules, because there are some other random tidbits to cover.

• Generally speaking, the offense has to have seven stationary men on the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. Someone has to be a snapper, but it doesn't matter if that person is an eligible receiver or not (which makes the swinging gate possible). There's no rule as to how many people have to be on each side of the snapper.

Any player on the line may shift sideways before the snap, assuming he:
1) Resets for at least one second prior to the ball being snapped;
2) Doesn't make a sudden movement that draws the defense off-sides; and
3) Has not touched either hand to the ground to form a "three-point" or "four-point" stance [note: this stipulation only applies to interior lineman, as eligible receivers can touch their hand down and pick it back up]

For the players off the line, they must be at least a full yard behind the line of scrimmage. They can all move around all they want pre-snap, as long as no more than one is moving within one second of the snap and no one is approaching the line of scrimmage.

That should be enough to cover the most basic portion of the formation rules, especially when viewing something so odd-looking as the swinging gate. I can easily see how it just looks illegal to the casual fan.

Link: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/23/zebra-report-fun-with-formations/
 
Another perspective - from that of the players. Apparently they wanted to run it again, it wasn't just Zorn:

Personally, I think they should've kicked the field goal. Let me get that out of the way first.

Limping in to halftime after a severe beat-down, knowing you'll be receiving the second-half kickoff, I say you take the three points, call it a moral victory that ends the shutout and cuts the deficit to a scant three touchdowns, and try to to build on it after the break.

But I will say this: it was a designed play. I've seen it work in practice. And it was not nearly as stupid as the TV announcers would have you believe.

If you watch the video above, you'll hear the announcing team go from giddy anticipation of a go-for-broke, nothing-to-lose attempt from a team that's been successful at them before to disdainfully scorning. "What is the wide world is that?" play-by-play voice Mike Tirico says, adding, "This is embarrassing" before getting back to the play-by-play.

"I've never seen that play," Jon Gruden froths to Ron Jaworski, in his overcaffeinated way. "I hope I never see it again, Jaws!"

"I'm speechless," Jaworksi responds. "I ... I don't know what to say."

And, a few seconds later, Gruden says, "They don't even protect their kickers here!" Which is an amusing line, but it also fundamentally ignores the concept of the play -- a concept that the players involved were defending in the postgame locker room, and STILL defending at the facility today.

"When you run it in practice," Hunter Smith started, and then paused. "Theoretically, you catch them off guard and they go safe mode and leave me alone, and just make sure I have nowhere to go and nowhere to run beyond the line of scrimmage. And, in some cases, it might work that way. But in their case..."

He didn't finish the sentence, so I'll finish it for him: in their case, it didn't.

"They pretty much did the one thing that we didn't want them to do," Smith said, "and that was an all-out rush. We thought we could catch them by surprise and get them kinda in a safe mode, and I think we probably had 'em in that mode except for they called a timeout."

Todd Yoder concurred. "When they called timeout," he said, "I think they kinda went over what the play was and how to play it. They decided just to rush the guy, hard up, just to tackle Hunter, and that kinda really limited the time that he had to make his decision. The idea is that, hopefully, maybe they don't rush as hard because they're worried about who to cover and it gives him a little more time to throw."

Yoder's opinion is particularly relevant here because he was one of the two primary targets on the play, and a crucial element in the deceptiveness.

"The idea is this," Smith explained. "You move Yoder to center, and in the moment maybe they don't think the center's eligible. And that's what it all turns on."

"The idea of subbing me in as the snapper is that hopefully they don't cover me," Yoder said. "Obviously, that really didn't pan out the that we wanted it to. I lined up at the end of the line to start, and then we just shift over so I was the end of the line guy. The hope being that them not knowing -- or noticing -- that I'm the tight end, then I can still go out for the pass."

No one came out and said it, but I'm assuming there was at least the faint hope that Yoder -- tall white guy wearing 87 -- might be mistaken for long snapper Ethan Albright, a tall white guy who wears number 67. If, you know, the Giants don't take that timeout.

(One thing that Albright was impressed with was Yoder's snapping ability. "I give him an A+, baby," he said. "He hit Hunter right in the sweet spot. He is multitalented. The old saying about the more you can do...? It definitely applies to Yoder."

"First snap in a ten-year NFL career," Yoder said, adding that he had been practicing it for weeks.)

But even after the Giants had time to review, these guys all said that they still wanted to go for it. "Yeah," Yoder said, "Hell, yeah. If we could've gotten a big touchdown going in there at the half, changes the momentum of the game, maybe puts it in our favor. I applaud the fact that even upon them calling a timeout, we felt very comfortable that, hey, we needed to make a play at that point in the game, so let's run it. Y'know, go for it."

And the play wasn't all about Yoder, either. ("We kinda knew he'd be covered," Smith explained. "They had six people on him.")

"They called timeout," Smith said, "and you know what? It was kinda like ..." -- he shrugged -- "we had another option, which was Fred [Davis] on the backside, and, I dunno, maybe if you look at it, maybe he was open and I didn't have time to get the ball to him."

Link: http://blog.redskins.com/2009/12/22/about-that-trick-play/
 
I'm wondering if Zorn wasn't trying to get fired that night. He's heard all the talk about Shanahan coming and Gray interviewing for the job. So he figure he would either embarass Snyder on national TV or get fired or with luck both.

I am very worried what we'll look like Sunday night against Dallas.
 
I'm wondering if Zorn wasn't trying to get fired that night. He's heard all the talk about Shanahan coming and Gray interviewing for the job. So he figure he would either embarass Snyder on national TV or get fired or with luck both.

I am very worried what we'll look like Sunday night against Dallas.

I have no idea what team will show up. We'll be in prime time for the second week in a row. I hope if nothing else pride will make them play better but I can't be sure that will happen.

We were starting to gain a little bit of respect for our recent play, then....we got this.
 
The problem with this whole season in microcosm is that Zorn is willing to make ANY outrageous move on special teams to get a score but then never has Campbell thow the ball into the end zone when the team gets within the 20.

He goes conservative and almost always runs the ball on first down, leaving Campbell at the mercy of the all-out blitz on long yardage.

the Redskins will never win anything completing a ball for 6 yards on third and 10.

Until the offense AND defense become more aggressive as a matter of gameplanning this team will be a slow mover, even with more talent on the roster.
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when i saw it i was like WTF are they doing and thinking you are already getting it handed to you so why this crazy crap.

like i said zorn is deadman walking as coach so i guess he was enjoying the moment while he,s still here.
 
Hey guys! I am new here so all I can say is, at least let us beat Dallas!!! This has been a pretty horrible season. One of the worst that I can remember and I have been a Skins fan for over 20 years. I have never seen the Skins look as bad as they did Monday night against the Giants. The Skins have a chance to really put it to the Cowboys and muddy the waters when it comes to them making the playoffs. So in a lost season let's at least beat the Cowboys at Fed Ex!!!!
 
Welcome brother :cheers:

Make sure you visit our Introductions thread and tell us a little bit about yourself.
 

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