The Bombshell

fansince62 said:

The WaPO is a lying rag. I wish people would quit referencing them as authoritative. They clearly have ulterior motives. Get to the truth. But rely on reputable sources. Demand unbiased processes be applied to uncover the truth. Snyder is being gang banged here. I don't care, endgame, what happens to him. I do care about the process - and the players.

We've seen this over and over and over these last few years: the truth has been corrupted in the service of power and wealth. The ruling paradigm has become ends justify means. Nail Snyder to the wall, but do it according to a fair process. And go after everyone else perpetrating the same violations of law.

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Unless you're disputing the facts as reported, that is 100% irrelevant, and honestly detracts from what the focus should be on - which is a serious abuse issue.

fansince62 said:

On one plane I agree with comments here. On another I don't and could care less. When I surveil what goes on in society I see no accountability for actions much worse than anything Snyder has been accused of.

I also see little to no accountability for ensuring we understand the truth before stabbing at the air in self-righteous anger (see Kavanaugh and many others). The accusations against Snyder et al may be true, but I have seen few if any posts arguing, especially in light of what we have witnessed at all levels of society, how these claims can be weaponized to destroy people - before justice and examination of the facts take place. The WaPO is known to go after its polticial enemies. The MSM is known to manufacture narratives. It's a concentrated, very wealthy, very rich group of people orchestrating these calculated attacks purposed for ulterior motives. The point is not that Snyder is not responsible for the accusations leveled at him. The point is......

The real principles at stake here are justice and rule of law. Justice for all. Unless one is prepared to fight for these principles in all venues it's, IMO, hollow sloganeering; a freebee with no real substance. These pigs in the media will go after Snyder. Fine. Jaded politicians gettng fat off paybacks, lusting for power will pursue political targets de jour often based on fabricated narratives. Both choose their targets selectively. I implore each of you not to fall for this. No matter how much you hate Snyder - it's not about him. It's about justice. It's about rule of law applied equally to everyone. It's about ensuring institutional integrity in the execution of responsibilities intended to apply justice and rule of law. You don't demand this you will get, as we are seeing at the highest levels, neither. And you will likely one day day become a victim yourself.

Don't lose the forest for the trees. Hold all these mfer's accountable regardless of what your voting registration card happens to read. We need to take back control.

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Of course, American justice is based on the presumption of innocence. I think everyone's aware of that. And yeah, the Washington Post is a left-wing paper who pursues vendettas on folks they believe deserve it. None of that matters one bit. I think it's pretty clear that there are numerous victims of sexual misconduct who've come forward. The team itself has fired career employees preemptively and hired it's own investigative lawyer. But yeah, there's probably nothing to it Al.

Those of you putting out these 'men are victims' and 'this goes on everywhere' bullshit posts are part of the problem. Sorry - I know that's harsh. But I'm just not going to let that stuff stand on a site I finance.

This is a serious issue that should have serious ramifications. You can try to tie it to SJW and the state of government or whatever other bullshit you want, but it's pretty obvious, like almost everything else associated with this franchise under this owner, that we are on the wrong side of integrity and good as we almost always seem to be.

It really doesn't require much more brain power and inspection than that to determine what this is all about. It's about not allowing WOMEN to be objectified, abused, degraded, and demeaned. If you can't get on board with that goal, I really don't have 2 seconds for you.

Smoot Point said:

I struggle to see how Snyder can be removed unless new evidence comes to light. Jerry Richardson was removed, but the complaints about behavior were about him and not his personnel. Snyder comes away guilty of negligence and mismanagement mostly from the current information we have. I have supported him to a fault over the years... However, while I wish him no ill will, it brings me pain hearing him attached to this team now. I'd appreciate it if we could just move on with new ownership.

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I don't know if he can or will be removed, but I guarantee you that personal culpability for sexual abuse isn't required. Snyder is responsible - indisputably - for what happens in his organization. If it's shown that he created, supported, and protected an environment where this shit went on for an extended period, impacting probably hundreds of women over the years, he is absolutely liable for it and should be removed. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility and it couldn't happen to a more deserving individual.

No.

Analytically/statistically it is very relevant. I know I am crossing a fine line year, but here goes: it is now surfacing how the WaPO, NYT and MSM outlets intentionally and knowlingly published false information. We all know what I am talking about. Vis the Redskins, over the years we have discussed inflamatory opinons or false stories the WaPO has published - remember some of the Sean Taylor stories? Same thing for many stories Sally Jenkins published.

All I am saying is what I have pieced together in separate posts as grounds for not trusting the integrity or intentions of that soapbox:
- the WaPO is known to have an ideological angle on what it covers and how it is covered
- the owner of the WaPO may stand to benefit if Snyder is removed (though it hasn't been officially confirmed Bozos is interested in buying an interest in the team)
- the WaPO and other MSM have conspired to destroy people's reputations; they have weaponized reporting
- the WaPO has long advocated for a team name change (something Snyder stood in the way of)

The point is the WaPO is not the arbiter of facts. They are known to fabricate or withhold relevant information. There's a history. They have eviscerated whatever trust any fair person might have invested in them in the past. The point is to have an independent, fair process reach the correct conclusions before rushing to judgment. And that, emphatically, is not a set that includes the WaPO, NYT, etc., among its members.

In the immortal words of Jim Mora - we think we know but we don't know. The entire situation around Redskins Park, from the name change to sponsor relations to sexual harassment, is more akin to an iceberg than an open book.

We know that FedEx sent a message to Dan a few weeks ago but we don't know how often Fred and Dan may have had private discussions about it.

We know Nike sent a message and pulled the merch of their store but we don't know how many times Phil Knight talked to Dan or Roger about the name privately.

We know about the 15 women the Post has reported on but how many more are there? How many instances went unreported?

This type of action won't go away overnight and it can't be fixed globally all at once, so don't talk to me about it happening everywhere and trying to fix it everywhere. That is a cheap trick intended to deflect attention away from the team. We have a place here and now that we can do some good. It should be focused on. Exclusively. If we broaden the focus, we will lessen the impact. I don't care what the President, past or present, has done. The time for that discussion was 4 years ago before some of you lot voted for him, so leave him out of this. Don't go back to allegations against Congress years ago or corporate scandals. There are not here and now, so they are just noise.

And don't talk to me about how women dress or use their looks. We all have natural talents that we use every day. Using them does not provide an open invitation for others to take liberties with those talents and resources. Men created this world, women are just trying to live in it.

We have an opportunity here to make one little part of our world better. As the father of two daughters, one a teenager and one a soon to be teenager, I am angry and I am focused. I want this to change and I really don't care if you disagree. Frankly, if you disagree you are part of the problem and are welcome to leave here now. We don't want you here.

So get on board, or get out.

This is just...

I have no words. And that is not a reply to Neophyte or Boone.

Al - you ignored every point I made regarding the team apparently taking this very seriously. I don't hear any outcry - in fact, the very first and only statement made by a team official was that they were going to change this horrible culture. They are not denying a word of that WP article.

When you have evidence these allegations are false (beyond a distrust of entities who don't like Dan Snyder, a distrust I'll mention that is well-founded and has been well-earned over many years), then I'll respectfully listen to you. Until then, I have nothing more to say.

Boone said:

Those of you putting out these 'men are victims' and 'this goes on everywhere' bullshit posts are part of the problem. Sorry - I know that's harsh. But I'm just not going to let that stuff stand on a site I finance.

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Men CAN be victims though. Do I think it's the case here? Probably not. But not everything has been seen yet. Hopefully you'll never end up on the wrong end of some vindictive wench that you rubbed the wrong way that decides to take you down.

Maybe "rubbed the wrong way" wasn't the best use of words there. Maybe just plain ol "pissed off" works better

Sarge said:

Men CAN be victims though. Do I think it's the case here? Probably not. But not everything has been seen yet. Hopefully you'll never end up on the wrong end of some vindictive wench that you rubbed the wrong way that decides to take you down.

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Okay - Sarge is gone. If anyone wants to join him, please self-identify.

Sarge said:

Men CAN be victims though. Do I think it's the case here? Probably not. But not everything has been seen yet. Hopefully you'll never end up on the wrong end of some vindictive wench that you rubbed the wrong way that decides to take you down.

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Yes, they can be victims. And women can be victims of other women.

Those points aren't being disputed by anyone but they also aren't relevant here. They are just a way to deflect attention from this calling out of the good old boy club culture at Redskins Park and they have no place here.

It truly is disgusting. What a HORRID work environment. I hope, in the end, that Dan is truly held accountable. It went on for YEARS. These creeps were allowed to do their thing freely without punishment. The buck stops with Dan. He allowed this gross workspace to fester.

Other guys there that witnessed it going on and did nothing are punks too. (I understand why other entry-level guys were scared to say anything.) But in the article it says that Scott Campbell was aware and offered a suggestion to one woman, but otherwise was just happy to collect checks and look the other way. He was senior staff. He could have done something.

I am all for "waiting for all the facts before casting judgment" in these kinds of cases. We have seen wolf cried before.

but, you NEVER demean, downplay, or act like it is anything but disgusting. there is nothing else to say.

"if true" this is disgusting
"if true" I hope they all get fired
I do not support this in any way
There is no excuse for this at all

there is never an excuse or a "but" scenario in sexual harassment.

Moving along...

I'll go on board with one case I had a work with a shady female, one where I was directly the victim (two, if you include the shady female) and one where a female coworker sat on info to use for her own benefit.

Get one out of the way first. A female coworker about my age was HUGE into crossfit. She looked amazing and new it, even if she probably would tear every joint and ligament by 50. She was a team lead, so not exactly a worker bee. Our program manager would send her occasional emails saying how "hot" she looked.

Program Manager.

When she showed me these and I asked why she never brought it to HR, she said she was keeping them in her back pocket for whenever she needed something. Now... this is in a Classified environment and we frequently have interns from Mason, 2/3 being female. I thought of them. If this female coworker wanted to sit on the info... fine... but she did so at the loss of the young interns. Every time I'd see the PM sitting down with one of the interns to see what their needs word (so not the job of a PM, by the way), I'd want to walk over and smash him in the face. I can't say anything, though. Not my place.

Another about ten years ago, a black female coworker whose husband was partner in a business law firm in DC was obviously being treated poorly and singled out by a newly-arrived team lead. A brand new position created just to give the guy a job since his program was dying and the new PM was his PM over there. Makes zero sense, I know. After a month or so of this, I led a few others to HR, but wouldn't do it without the backing of my team. They all did. When all was said and done and all the proof, emails and etcetera were given, not a single thing was done to the newly-arrived team lead. Instead, the female coworker we stuck up for, an older coworker and I were put on a separate team... just us... and had the worst hours imaginable. They could say there was no legal vindictiveness, however, because they didn't change our titles and salaries. That's how they protect themselves. The older coworker retired shortly thereafter and the two of us wound up leaving for better programs.

Last... about two years ago I was accused by a female coworker of some very shady things. I was able to go back and prove it was actually her, but the bottom line was my name got thrown in the ringer with our prime on the contract as well as my HR. My boss, a female, knew better. She knew it wasn't me and that the coworker was no only lying, but was the true guilty party. When HR did ask me what I wanted to do, I said nothing. Maybe that was a bad decision, I don't know. Turned out my coworker didn't like being turned down, but all I could think about was her kids going without. I have three of my own and, while I wouldn't do anything stupid, I also wouldn't want to look bad in their eyes and unable to care for them.

I can guarantee we've seen enough of this to know that, even taking into account the biases of the Compost, none of the scenarios I've laid-out is what has happened in Ashburn.

Neo: you don't now the facts of my life - speaking of truths. Yours is the sort of response that should scare everyone. When bereft of ideas the weak minded resort to threats - and not as the last option when all else has failed.

I have always kept an eye out for closet fascists. They are asn especially worrisome charatcer type.

The allegations are disgusting, abhorrent and just gross, but I cast no stone's without further review and information, I've been on the wrong end of a sexual harassment claim which found no merit but damaged my career at that employer and almost ended my relationship with my lady. So with that being said I'll refrain from posting anymore on this issue since my personal experience can muddy the waters.

fansince62 said:

Neo: you don't now the facts of my life - speaking of truths. Yours is the sort of response that should scare everyone. When bereft of ideas the weak minded resort to threats - and not as the last option when all else has failed.

I have always kept an eye out for closet fascists. They are asn especially worrisome charatcer type.

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And there’s one more done on this site. We will be a small, merry band of folks who support women and eschew misogyny I guess.

SkinsOrlando said:

The allegations are disgusting, abhorrent and just gross, but I cast no stone's without further review and information, I've been on the wrong end of a sexual harassment claim which found no merit but damaged my career at that employer and almost ended my relationship with my lady. So with that being said I'll refrain from posting anymore on this issue since my personal experience can muddy the waters.

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You’re fine SO. There are obviously instances in life of abuse in both directions. But equating the two, when one is a daily, never-ending burden women have to endure and navigate, and the other is possible but almost certainly not commonplace, is reprehensible. There is only one reason why someone would pick this instance to raise doubts on that basis and it’s not a good look for those who have done it.

I don’t think mentioning there have been instances where false accusations have occurred is a cardinal sin. But hinting that what these women are claiming is no big deal (or that they should be doubted without a shred of contrary evidence) because sometimes men are falsely accused - that’s not going to fly here.

For the record, I was falsely accused by a coworker because I rejected her advances. Fortunately I knew she was crazy and I’d already spoken to my boss about it before she tried to accuse me.

My experience though has nothing to do with what’s been alleged regarding this organization by women with nothing to gain from coming forward.