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Random Commanders Thoughts

You're missing my point. Obviously, any serious NFL fan knows that highly sought after college QBs can bust. And little known or unheralded ones can prove to be the real deal. We all know and accept that.

I'm specifically talking about QBs who are seen as 'can't miss', 'generational' QBs who have no perceived flaws in any part of their game. There's a reason I gave the two examples I did. Of course there is no such thing as 'can't miss'. But there are guys who every or nearly every expert agrees are special. Luck was like that. Peyton Manning was like that. And I think Tua is like that. Next year Trevor Lawrence will probably be like that.

No matter who you are talking about, there will some potential negatives voiced. Manning's draft profiles sometimes referenced his only 'average' arm, I found one that even said he was 'too serious'. And a lot of scouts had Ryan Leaf rated above him. I think QB assessment now is light years better than it was then. Many college programs run pro-style offenses, so NFL scouts get a more accurate image of what a potential QB draft choice might be able to do.

Don't get me wrong... drafting the right QB is always, to some degree, going to be risky. But I do think there are guys like Luck and Manning (and I'd argue, Tua) who have NO obvious weaknesses. Those are the guys you take very early in the draft.

There's a reason why Haskins was there at pick 15 last year. There were concerns about his game, his footwork, the limited college 'body of work', etc... All I'm saying is that, I think there's a strong argument to be made to consider Tua. If you've brought in a capable young competitor from your previous team to compete with Haskins, and are making noises like you are not certain Haskins will be your starter - those are red flags. And in light of that - if you think Tua may be one of those franchise-turning special QBs, you take him with the 2nd pick 100 out of 100 times and never look back.
 
hmmmm.....seems to me a common pattern among the also-rans is what happened between the ears. That's where the real guessing game falls. at the end of the day...the core problem is that:
1. A decision has to me made
2. Higher draft picks have to have corresponding value
3. The statistcial hit/miss argument logically applies to all draft picks
4. Points 1 and 2 nevertheless drive a prioritization based on information at hand: college experience/level of that experience/college coach passdowns/college tape/ etc......obviously have to play a role in decision-making

It's the mental/emotional part that strikes me as the variable with the largest variance in all of this.

What are folks looking for here? 90% certainty? 80%? 70%? 60%?
 
Mathematical certainty is unattainable. But I think that the Head Coach has to 100% believe he's got a guy who can take him to the Promised Land. There can be zero doubt.

Anyone think Rivera has that kind of belief in Haskins?

I just have this nagging feeling I can't dismiss. If you don't have that guy, and you're sitting at a prime spot to get that guy - how can you not pull that particular trigger?

I guess one answer could be that Rivera doesn't view Tua as a guy he'd 100% believe in, nor any of the others who will be available. Or perhaps, he's willing to give Haskins a single season to prove him wrong and will delay a huge move at QB to give him that opportunity. But my gut keeps telling me - if you don't have the QB you really, really believe in, and have the 2nd pick in an NFL draft, you don't draft a defender. You go bold.

I know that goes against conventional belief. It's just a feeling I can't get past.
 
Of course, even Luck succumbed to injury. Another possible reason college guys can't live up to their promise.

Colleges are less pro style now, aren't they. Isn't a big issue with college QB's is that they do not do much work under center?

Heath Shuler was highly rated too.

And hindsight will be the only accurate assessment of Tua.
 
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2. Higher draft picks have to have corresponding value

This right here is why I have been a fan of trading down in this year's draft. With any pick, you want to get the most value, and a #2 overall pick is highly valuable.

Now, what value does Chase Young bring? A lot! The kid will be a good one, a very good one in the NFL, and I think he can fulfill the value of such a high pick. But I remember the Giants' teams with Lawrence Taylor. How many Super Bowls did they win?

Then take Iook at the Cowboys in the 90's that won 3 out of 4 Super Bowls. While not the #2 overall, that team was built on a trade that netted them a shit load of picks...yes, more than that #2 would net us. But the point is...they drafted multiple players and won Super Bowls without a Lawrence Taylor type rusher.

Now Bulldog is partially right in that the trade down doesn't guarantee anything, but I will always maintain that 3 - 1st round picks, and at least a 2nd is better than the next super star DE who can get 12-15 sacks a year. We could have the starting bookends on the OL for the next 4 years on rookie contracts since the draft is deeeeeeeep In LT and RT talent.
 
Was curious if Allen has emailed a playbook to Haskins yet, or is he like hell nah?
 
After all the shots RR has taken at Haskins there’s no doubt left that DH isn’t ‘HIS’ pick. To me he’s ruining what could be a potential franchise QB wanting to stay in dc.

Doesnt matter a bit what my opinion is in the grand scheme of things, but I foresee Haskins lighting the league the F up if not this year then the one after. Still, why would he want to play for a coach who’s always 2nd guessing him? Nobody would want to work with that condition.

Maybe RR will change his tune at some point and actually support & build around DH, hope it’s not too late by then.
 
How has Rivera taken ‘shots’ or ‘dissed Haskins Win? We had to have a backup and he got one. He’s said Haskins would have to win the job but that’s what good coaches do until someone has proven themselves. He’s been mostly complimentary of Haskins from everything I’ve read. I am surprised by his most recent comments but I think he could just be putting up a challenge to see how Haskins responds, or possibly it’s a backup plan of camp and practice time is severely limited?

I don’t personally see anything other than that.
 
Just looking up a few stats and came across the 2008 draft. WE Traded down and chose 3 receivers in the 2nd round.

Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Malcolm Kelly

We passed on:
Jordy Nelson
Desean Jackson
Martellus Bennett

I think Fred Davis could have been a whole lot better, but we whiffed big on that trade down, Bulldog.
 
Yeah but he doesn’t just say we needed a backup though. There’s always a caveat attached to his praise. Take this one for example.



Then this quote from the other day, take note this whole paragraph is praise for Allen while Haskins isn’t even mentioned


(On a competition between QBs Kyle Allen and Dwayne Haskins Jr.:
“I think it will be a good competition I really do, mostly because having been around Kyle for two seasons I’ve kind of watched him interact with the quarterbacks that were in the room. You know he was in the room with a very strong personality in Cam Newton and Kyle handled himself tremendously. And we had Taylor Heinicke and he was Taylor’s understudy. I just know what kind of person he is, and just feel that he’s the kind of guy that’s going to go into this, he’s not threatened by anything. What he’s really concerned about is doing the best job he can and if he ends up starting and being the guy, great, he’ll be fired up about it. And if he’s not, he’s in the backup role, he’ll be fired up about that as well. I mean he’s the right kind of person for that room and that’s what I felt really strongly about and that’s why we were able to make the deal with Carolina to bring him in. He’s got that real good sense about him, that being part of something is better than being an individual.”)

if there’s a quote of RR out there praising Haskins without the ‘but he’s not anointed’ language in it I’ve definitely missed it.
 
So...

Why is the media so invested in tearing down Dwayne Haskins?
The whole narrative being painted is :

Ron Rivera doesn't believe in Haskins
Ron Rivera isn't invested in Haskins
Kyle Allen was brought in to replace Haskins
Redskins likely to draft Tua to replace Haskins

Meanwhile, in New York...
You have a new coaching staff and you hear absolutely nothing about the team potentially moving on from Daniel Jones.

The DC sports media market has to be one of the worst in the country.....
 
Win - I noted on Twitter yesterday that I thought Rivera’s tone felt different in his latest comments - that he’d gone from ‘Haskins is the presumed starter’ to ‘Kyle Allen may start’ so I understand your concern.

I think Rivera IS applying some pressure to Haskins to see how he responds. Not sure I have a problem with it. I don’t necessarily think that’s a reflection of him not believing Haskins can be the guy. But he wants him to earn it. I think some of the questions related to ‘how does Haskins learn and get comfortable in a new system if camps and practices are seriously curtailed?’ and that’s why he brought up Allen’s experience.

I think it’s a little early to be criticizing Rivera’s handling of a QB. Truth is, for all we know this is exactly what Haskins needs. His best year ever came while playing for a coach who had a zero BS approach and who certainly didn’t coddle players or play favorites. I’d say let’s wait and see how Haskins responds before we are so quick to doubt the approach.
 
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Yeah it is what it is. I don’t think he dislikes the situation enough to take Tua at 2, but RR is definitely reserved with Haskins. Also believe Allen was a great pickup for initial competition and backup duties.

If DH can’t beat Allen out once he knows the playbook then he doesn’t deserve to be in the league. I’ll shun him as if he was an Amish whore just like the rest of you! ;)
 
Who is shunning Haskins brother??? There’s not a member here who won’t be grinning from ear to ear if he takes off and proves to be the guy.

On another note ... when are we going to stop making our QBs out to be victims? Poor Patrick Ramsey was a victim, JC was a victim, RG3 was a victim, Cousins was a victim, and now it’s Haskins...

Look - it’s not Dan Snyder or the GM or the HC or anyone else who decides if a guy makes it in the NFL. It’s the GDQB’s job to make it. Every guy that does make it didn’t have a perfect supporting cast, or a HC who spent most of his time telling him how great he was, or built the offense around him, or even teammates that wanted to hang out with him after work.

They make it because of drive, talent, hard work, and determination. Or they don’t.

I hope like hell Haskins makes it. But if he doesn’t, it’ll be primarily because he didn’t have what it takes, not because his HC didn’t gush about him constantly.
 
There’s been several posters that are less than keen on Haskins, doesn’t matter in the scheme of things either way. The shunning was an attempt of humor on those posters that clearly didn’t land.

For the record I’ve never said Haskins or any one of the qb’s you’ve mentioned is a victim, not sure who else has but it wasn’t me. I’ve stated my piece on what I view as RR’s reserved ‘commitment’ to DH, if it can be labeled as such.

Clearly we disagree here on what gushing is. If you or anyone else can provide a gushing review that came from RR concerning Haskins I’ve not seen it. ESPECIALLY one without the caveats I mentioned earlier id love to see them. As far as being coddled/pampered goes when has he been handed anything as a redskin?

It seems one of us is seeing something that isn’t there. I’ll refrain from the subject going forward regardless, whether I’m correct or not. I’m getting mistaken for promoting victim hood here while ignoring his being pampered & that isn’t the case. Not even kinda close to it
 
Come on man - we're just talking... I'm just surprised at some of the words you are using which seem awfully strong considering we haven't even had a practice, much less a game. Rivera is an experienced coach and has had some success. I'm just saying I wouldn't read nearly as much into his *language* as you are. Rivera specifically has spoken, more than once, about how much progress he saw from Haskins as his starts progressed.

I wasn't directing the 'victimhood' comments at you - but at Redskins fans in general. These guys are big boys. Haskins, just like every other QB at this level, has had to fight to prove he's the starter every step of his career from pee wee, to HS, to college, and now. It's the most natural thing in the world. I think Rivera knows he is physically gifted and probably also realizes he wasn't exactly set up for success in his rookie year. Rivera has even gone so far to say that it's Haskins job to lose. He's just not going to hand the job to him.

If you want validation that Rivera loves Haskins - it'll come in the form of picking CY at #2, or trading down. There are some impressive QBs available at that spot, so if he doesn't take one, that's a pretty strong indicator he thinks he's got something in Haskins.
 
So I have been thinking, Ron Rivera chose Cam Newton over Von Miller, but everyone seems set on him taking Chase since he's a defensive minded coach.

Tua is his man!
 
I hope he isn't the man! "Brittle" is a scary description


"What they saw ... it's not just his hip. It's his ankle. It's his wrist," Lombardi said on his podcast, "The GM Shuffle." "He broke his wrist the first day of spring ball one year. And then they fixed it and he came back, and he rebroke it again. He's brittle. He is brittle. You can't deny it."
 
I do not watch very much college ball. So I depend on some who do. Have read concerns about him being brittle, as well. Even while not getting hit much in college. Some say he won't be so lucky in the pros. Where he is likely to get hit early, and often, by the bigger, stronger, more consistently good NFL defenders.
 

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