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Coronavirus - COVID19

My skepticism on a lot of this is continuing to grow by the day.

Lots of agendas.
Lots of spinning.
Numbers manipulation.
Posturing.
Etc...
 
I've been pretty supportive of DeWine during all of this; even with his criticisms of Trump.

Today though he said "We don't want people gathering in masses. We need you to continue the fight". But, when asked about people going to church he replied with "nobody is going to take away your 1st amendment and stop people from going to church". Seems to me you should do that if you dont want mass gatherings.
 
I've been pretty supportive of DeWine during all of this; even with his criticisms of Trump.

Today though he said "We don't want people gathering in masses. We need you to continue the fight". But, when asked about people going to church he replied with "nobody is going to take away your 1st amendment and stop people from going to church". Seems to me you should do that if you dont want mass gatherings.

You guys may think I’m crazy - but if I were a Governor and found out ministers were planning on holding in-person group services - you’d be under arrest. ‘Going to Church’ is not required to pursue whatever religious beliefs you have. And the whole point is that this is not just about ‘you’ and ‘your rights’. You pick up this virus you then spread it. It’s not confined to you or your congregation. That is absolutely unacceptable.
 
My skepticism on a lot of this is continuing to grow by the day.

Lots of agendas.
Lots of spinning.
Numbers manipulation.
Posturing.
Etc...

Lots of hospitalizations.
Lots of unpreventable deaths.
Lots of trauma, loss, and grief.
 
You guys may think I’m crazy - but if I were a Governor and found out ministers were planning on holding in-person group services - you’d be under arrest. ‘Going to Church’ is not required to pursue whatever religious beliefs you have. And the whole point is that this is not just about ‘you’ and ‘your rights’. You pick up this virus you then spread it. It’s not confined to you or your congregation. That is absolutely unacceptable.
thats where my skepticism came in. You cant allow people to go to church where hundreds of strangers all gather...but, then tell me that hanging out with my neighbors who are healthy is bad.
 
Some of the biggest problem spots in the world have been linked directly to religious gatherings. This whole seeming unwillingness to tell churches "no" is killing me. All it does is put more people at risk, especially in the South where mega-churches are so common and high attendance rates make social distancing a complete impossibility.

I saw where one state exempted them as "essential business". If they are indeed an essential "business" then I think they should be taxed like a business. I don't say this lightly either. I grew up in a church-going household and attended a religious college. I am, however, sick of the pandering to the religious right that is taking place within the GOP and how much of their platform is designed specifically for that voting block.
 
Let’s leave the politics out of it. It’s patently stupid irresponsible, and arguably criminal, to gather in large numbers for any reason right now. And I don’t think it’s just evangelicals bucking common sense.
 
Ohio is now debating whether it is beginning of May or end of May before we "start our journey back to normal"

as soon as we can hang with the neighbors, we are burning every log in the woods and blowing up all the fireworks in NE Ohio! I'm shooting ALL THE GUNS and drinking ALL THE BEER!! lol

but, really I just want to fish my buddy's pond with my boys...
 
You guys may think I’m crazy - but if I were a Governor and found out ministers were planning on holding in-person group services - you’d be under arrest. ‘Going to Church’ is not required to pursue whatever religious beliefs you have. And the whole point is that this is not just about ‘you’ and ‘your rights’. You pick up this virus you then spread it. It’s not confined to you or your congregation. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Interesting discussion...with no resolution.

The community versus inalienable rights.

The community versus the Bill of Rights.

What many find disturbing is how easily this all slips into authoritarian controls by fiat....when this has not been prracticed in most of our lifetimes- not like this...not for this length of time......not with these ecnomic consequences. It demonstrates, at least to me, how quickly everything this country was founded on can evaporate.
 
Interesting discussion...with no resolution.

The community versus inalienable rights.

The community versus the Bill of Rights.

What many find disturbing is how easily this all slips into authoritarian controls by fiat....when this has not been prracticed in most of our lifetimes- not like this...not for this length of time......not with these ecnomic consequences. It demonstrates, at least to me, how quickly everything this country was founded on can evaporate.
People in this country have the right to practice any religion they choose. Nothing guarantees them the right to do that in a large group or in a church.

Our rights are only guaranteed until the point when they infringe on the rights of others. I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I potentially lose all of those if I get this virus just because people disregarding an order that's being put out for the good of the country want to be stupid.
 
I regret commenting on the religious aspect, because I am opening a can of worms there and myself getting into topics that we have said for years we prefer not discussed here. I am commenting as a healthcare provider however - not in terms of religious or political beliefs. What is going on right now is not some conspiracy to take away long-cherished and sacred personal rights. It's a temporary and by definition drastic alteration in our normal lives required (or deemed required) to save lives. That's it. People are still free to do whatever they like using available technology. If the ramifications of allowing mass disregard for county, state, and national limitations were only personal (ie... you put yourself at risk, but no one else), I'd say 'knock yourself out'. But that's not the case. There is no way to know who is walking around infecting others. Hence where we are right now. I know some of you are skeptical of all that. But frankly, there is zero evidence this is all some grandly orchestrated conspiracy to exert mass control over people.

Lets get back to the original purpose of the thread - which was to check on each other, share actual information (not speculation) on what is going on with the virus, and to support each other.
 
People in this country have the right to practice any religion they choose. Nothing guarantees them the right to do that in a large group or in a church.

Our rights are only guaranteed until the point when they infringe on the rights of others. I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I potentially lose all of those if I get this virus just because people disregarding an order that's being put out for the good of the country want to be stupid.

Then explain why these controls are not uniformly enforced. That's a fact jack. There are other priorities that weigh into the balance. Knowing this argument was eventuially going to parade across this thread I set the stage a while ago in a response highlighting the heroism of people who take risks in service of other principles and values - firemen, doctors, military ,etc. There are multiple values in play - some that transcend life itself. That's reality. That's the whole sweep of history.

You're also missing one of the deeper notions in play here: these decisions have to be carefuilluy considered. Sacrificing one's rights because, let's say, a questionable governor in VA or NV decides it is politically advantageous to do so when the evidence is highly variable and the data all over the map - it throws all these decisions into a different light.

Rights aren't circumstantial - if so, they aren't rights. They aren't malleable - no matter the post-modernist power driven position of the moment. They do have to be defended and protected.

The herd blindly follow orders. Citizens have obligations to the community, no doubt. But there are rights that transcend life. When these rights are rescinded - especially unilaterally and have destructive consequences - then the responsible act is to consider who is making the decisions, the science/scientism behind the decisions, the threats being made to scare people into abiding by the rules, the risks created by the rules, the ancillary objectives behind the decisions, the credibility of the analysis that motivates the decisions.

I have "conformed" to the rules partly because there was no choice; partly because many of the proscriptive measures make sense. But I pay attention to how easily rights are unilaterally dashed; I look at the people making these decisions and am struck by how average, how self-serving, how un-prepared these supposed guardians of the public well-being truly are.

Lots of decisions fall into the "stupid" category when it comes to the community versus individual rights. Take a gander at 1930's Germany for some examples. I'll leave with a final thought: your implicit notion that there are no absolute rights - other than your physical welfare, your mortality, your notion of infringement. This could also be seen as very scary. How far are you willing to go for that right? The question is not posed as a threat. It's looking at the implications of your positon.
 
I know you guys want to talk about this - but the truth is the thread is being steered into a discussion about the rights of the state vs individual liberties which is at its core a political convo. I think we all understand that. And while it’s been relatively civil, experience says it won’t stay that way.

I recognize in today’s world a lot of us struggle to have any conversation about any topic without referencing politics or our personal world view. But it’s a football site and we long ago determined people are mostly incapable of having civil discussions about controversial topics.

Going to ask that we stick to COVID-19 topics that don’t involve wherever your political and world views lead you.
 

this is something I fear. It will continue to linger and "come back" in winter months like the flu. What happens when those who are anti-vaxx dont want to get the vaccine? What happens when its supposed to be every year? I dont really want to get yet ANOTHER snot every year if I dont have to.

Philadelphia and Washington D.C. are expected to be new hotspots for the coronavirus pandemic, White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx said in a conference call with House Democrats Wednesday, according to a source on the call.
 
Local artist painted this huge mural across the street from the hospital I work in...

003CE3DC-88FE-4CD2-BC54-7395469DABD2.jpeg
 
my friend is a nurse in NJ and her husband is a Director of Nurses in some other part. No nepotism lol

anyways...he got sick last week and had to be "isolated" while waiting for the results to come back. They came back negative and we had a Zoom party to celebrate.

They get on the camera and I literally jumped back. Their faces are so bruised and red from the N95 masks it was shocking. I thanked them over and over for what they do and almost lost my composure at one point.

I respect anyone who puts someone else's life before their own, but during this time when we are all locked down and scared...its superhero status.
 
Local artist painted this huge mural across the street from the hospital I work in...

View attachment 4565

Which hospital? Do you work at Cone or so where else? I haven’t been more than 5 miles from my house in K Vegas in 3 weeks, so I don’t know what is going on in the area. But I have been curious as to the hospital where you work. If you prefer not to say, that’s fine as well. We have other friends working in various roles at the local hospitals and I think that scares me more than anything. It’s the one place we know that the virus is centralized.
 

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