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Redskins Recon

Redskins Recon-The Broncos-Shanny's homecoming

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I like doing Redskins Recons-it's really a lot of fun and interesting.

This time was one of the best. There weren't a lot of threads about the upcoming game with the Skins but what I did find was good-one of them one of the best I've seen. As a result, this Recon will be much longer than most.


I remember from visiting Broncos fan forums in the past that the fans there are generally pretty decent, not a lot of snark, or name-calling smack talk just the "Go team let's beat these guys" talk you'd expect.

This time was a bit special though.


Ironically, the best one was started by a Redskins fan who joined a Broncos fan board and started a thread about the two teams.

What ensued was one of the best, and most mutually respectful, conversations between fans of opposing teams I've read yet.

I copied a lot of this thread verbatim just because I thought it was that good and to make following some of the conversation flow a bit easier. Hope you don't mind.

Whoever, you are, Redskins36, thank you. You did us proud.


Thread title "Redskins fan here"


Redskins36
Redskins fan here
Just wanted to give you guys a Redskins fan's take on the game and Washington's team.

Redskins Offense:
RG3 is finally looking like himself again. He still worries me with taking hits and cutting back for an extra two yards, but he is getting out of bounds more than last year. He locks onto his first read a lot, and it's been hurting him more this year than in the past.

Morris and Helu are strong in the run game. Lately, Morris has been the main back, with Helu coming in for passing downs and when we go hurry up. Morris is more of a banger while Helu can catch the ball and make things happen with his speed.

At wide receiver, it's basically Garcon and a bunch of role players. The receivers are all good blockers, but only Garcon gets open consistently. Hankerson struggles with drops a lot. Robinson is a one-trick pony that runs deep routes. Moss is showing his age, but can sneaky in the red zone.

Jordan Reed is looking like a stud at tight end, if he can stay healthy. He is a rookie who went into Florida as a QB so he is still learning to position, but he has the athleticism to be great.

Behind him, Paulsen is a good blocker. Fred Davis has been inactive since Reed emerged and Niles Paul is a special teamer.

O-line is led by pro bowl LT Trent Williams. The other four are all average to below average and benefit from Griffin's escape ability and deception with play action/read option.

Defense:
The secondary is pretty bad and could be without both start safeties this week. Meriweather will be out with suspension and Reed Doughty was concussed against the Bears and his status is in the air. Deangelo Hall has played well this year, but can't cover small quick guys (Welker).

Strength is the linebacking group. Kerrigan and Riley are the two best players on defense. Orakpo is very overrated, but he can get after non-mobile QB's. He can't stop the run though. Fletcher is finally showing his age.

Cofield is the only noteworthy player on the line. It's a very weak line at generating pressure or stopping the run.

Special teams:
Worst aspect of the team so far. We've allowed 3 touchdowns (Raider's blocked a punt for TD, Cowboys and Bears returned punts for TDs). Plus we have a revolving door at punt returner and players continue to wave for a fair catch and their own 5 yard line and put the offense in awful position.

Take on the game: I can't imagine us stopping the Broncos O. Hall would have a better chance (still unlikely) at stopping Thomas than Welker, he just doesn't matchup well there. With potentially both safeties out, this could be a record setting game for Manning. Only chance for the defense is Orakpo, Kerrigan and Cofield generating pressure against a banged up Broncos o-line.

Von Miller should have a field day against our RT Polumbus. I think the Redskins are going to try and run the ball to keep Peyton on the sideline and set up playaction.

My prediction is Broncos 38 Redskins 24.

I follow the Redskins very closely, so if you guys have any questions about the team I'd be happy to answer. Hope it's an injury free game!





DenverBlood
I think the Skins will get some points but will get down a couple of scores and then resort to all passing second half ala the Eagles.

I don't think they will be able to stop us whatsoever. I mean the Bears put up 41 without Cutler. However we have shown the copensity to stop ourselves a lot.


Amari24
Thanks for the perspective. Considering the state of the OL, Kerrigan could be a huge problem. Hall has also been pretty solid against the #1's this season but as you said, Meriweather is out and there are several young guys in the secondary. RG3 looks as if he's finally getting his legs under him so he'll be able to extend plays which is something the defense has struggled with recently.

If Denver doesn't make the same mental errors and turnovers from last week they'll win the game. If not and they fail to show up... Shanny will once again beat his former team.

BroncoSynapses
Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
I think the Skins will get some points but will get down a couple of scores and then resort to all passing second half ala the Eagles.

I don't think they will be able to stop us whatsoever. I mean the Bears put up 41 without Cutler. However we have shown the copensity to stop ourselves a lot.

Prediction: 41-20 Broncos
Realize that how other teams play a familiar opponent doesn't mean much, it's about matchups. So each team will be different depending on the roster, scheme, etc. Just because CHI put up 40+ doesn't mean that it will be an easy day for us.

Some thought IND would be an easy win based on how they played at SD. That didn't turn out so well.

Just a friendly reminder.


Peanut
Welcome to Broncos Country, Redskins36!

Pretty good run down of your team.

RG3 is doing better each week. He can be dangerous.

The thing hubby (Skins' fan) keeps yelling at the TV..."Learn how to tackle!"

It's going to be interesting in our home this week. Not sure if it's ever happened in the same week before.

Hubby (Skins) VS Me (Bronco)

Older daughter (Pats) VS Younger daughter (SF)


BroncoSynapses
My goodness, what a household! haha Sorry to hear they have yet to see the light, but there is always hope.



USMC_BRONCO
Originally Posted by BroncoSynapses View Post
Realize that how other teams play a familiar opponent doesn't mean much, it's about matchups. So each team will be different depending on the roster, scheme, etc. Just because CHI put up 40+ doesn't mean that it will be an easy day for us.

Some thought IND would be an easy win based on how they played at SD. That didn't turn out so well.

Just a friendly reminder.
This^^^

I completely agree with this comment. Lets not overlook an opponent. Like Manning said, "its not easy to win games in the NFL"


Hanzo the Razor
I also follow the Redskins... I basically root for the Redskins in the NFC and Peyton Manning in the AFC. If they ever meet in the SB, I'd have to go Manning since he only has a few seasons left to win another ring and I think RG3 has plenty of time to develop into a top NFL QB.

Like the Colts game, I think a lot of this comes down to turnovers. The Redskins lost against the Eagles, Cowboys, and Lions chiefly due to turning the ball over.

The Bears' run defense has been awful, as you saw with Brandon Jacobs tearing them up, so I wasn't surprised to see the Redskins take advantage of that. Denver seems to have a stouter run defense so far; I feel that if the Broncos can stop the run, use confusing blitzes, and get tight coverage on Garcon and Reed, they will be successful.

If the Redskins can run the ball, the Broncos will probably give up points and it's possible they can keep it tight. But this squad has been so inconsistent this year, blowing plays and turning it over in clutch situations. It depends on which Redskins show up.

On the other side of the ball, the only threat seems to be the pass rush -- the run defense has been terrible and the secondary just doesn't seem to stop anyone consistently despite coming up with some pick sixes here and there. If the Broncos can protect Manning, they shouldn't have an issue... but that was true for the Colts as well.

This next poster, KWHIT97, and I have a similar philosophy about football fandom-and about why I liked this thread so much.


KWHIT97
I love threads like this, respectful fan coming in to give a good perspective on the game, not coming in just to talk smack. Nice read overall. I will always root for Shanny wherever he goes because he did so much for us, but I'm hoping we annihalate him this Sunday. Either way it will be fun, hoping for a hard-fought, injury free game. God knows neither of our teams could use any more of those!



johntbronco
Thanks Redskins36! I think we are going to have to have a quarterback spy on our defense to make sure RGIII doesn't run a ton on us. He looks like he is comming back to his old self! The Redskins look like they can put up some offensive numbers, so i won't be suprised with high numbers on both sides.


Taos_Broncomaniac
Originally Posted by BroncoSynapses View Post
Realize that how other teams play a familiar opponent doesn't mean much, it's about matchups. So each team will be different depending on the roster, scheme, etc. Just because CHI put up 40+ doesn't mean that it will be an easy day for us.

Some thought IND would be an easy win based on how they played at SD. That didn't turn out so well.

Just a friendly reminder.
In some cases it's better to get a team coming off of an emotional high (Redskins) rather than a pissed off team with something to prove (Broncos)

Chances that we play light out are good, can they maintain that level of play 2 weeks running? Not likely. We're at home guys!!!

Redskins36
Just to ask a couple questions about the Broncos (I'm trying to find reasons for some optimism)

-What are all of your o-line problems? I know about Clady, but I've read on here there are more. Have they struggled in any games other than Indy?

-How's the secondary at tackling after the catch? Redskins rely a lot on short passing and YAC.

-How does the defense usually fair against tight ends? Other than Garon, Jordan Reed is the Redskins main receiving threat.

ERoyal248
Its been pretty good for most of the year, last week vs Indy it was disastorous.

Franklin, our RT went down, and had to move our RG to RT, and Kuper who isnt healthy to G, i'd give Moffitt a shot at G personally. He might return this week but most think he'll be back after the bye.

Some good, some bad in the tackling department.

Tight ends we arent great at, Reed is looking like a stud though. Trevathan or Woodyard normally cover TE's, will be a challenge..

cmc0605

Originally Posted by Redskins36 View Post
Just to ask a couple questions about the Broncos (I'm trying to find reasons for some optimism)

-What are all of your o-line problems? I know about Clady, but I've read on here there are more. Have they struggled in any games other than Indy?

-How's the secondary at tackling after the catch? Redskins rely a lot on short passing and YAC.

-How does the defense usually fair against tight ends? Other than Garon, Jordan Reed is the Redskins main receiving threat.
1) Aside from the Indy game, the o-line has been one of the best in the league, even after Clady went down. Chris Clark has been playing well. There has been some moving around on the right side when Franklin got hurt, but I think they just had a really bad game last week in a loud environment. Adjustments will be made. I'm not concerned about it right now, I'll need to see another 1-2 games without Franklin. But in general, Peyton has had all day to throw for much of the season.

2) We have good tacklers, the problem has been whether a defender is in the vicinity of the play or not. For some reason, there's been a lot of guys with no one 5-10 yards of them, and that's when they get chunk yards. Some of that was due to the need to blitz a lot though with Von out. I didn't see any obvious examples of that last night except for one or two plays when Luck scrambled a lot.

3) Jason Witten gave us a hard time, but the LBs are good enough in coverage most of the time. And if they give up a play they often make a play later.

The key component for your offensive success, in my opinion, is how well RG3 can extend plays. No team has done anymore than mildy dent us with the running attack. And we've played Ray Rice, LeSean McCoy, McFadden, MJD, Trent Richardson, and other good backs. The Skins RBs are good but this is not an effective strategy against Denver. Nor is passing to the outside too much. But I will expect you to have middle zone routes open, quick slants, the seem route, etc, ESPECIALLY if RG3 can create extended time for himself. Denver played contain rather than all-out pass rush against

Pryor and Vick, which I can expect as a template for an RG3, but Von is an X-factor that wasn't in those games.

rst08tierney
manning plays lights out. the indy game was murder on his psyche.

I feel for the redskins

broncos 53

Skins 27



TonyR
RG3 is starting to come around and will give us some problems. Thankfully their defense is awful.


Redskins36
ERoyal248 View Post
Its been pretty good for most of the year, last week vs Indy it was disastorous.

Franklin, our RT went down, and had to move our RG to RT, and Kuper who isnt healthy to G, i'd give Moffitt a shot at G personally. He might return this week but most think he'll be back after the bye.


Some good, some bad in the tackling department.

Tight ends we arent great at, Reed is looking like a stud though. Trevathan or Woodyard normally cover TE's, will be a challenge..
That's a lot of bad luck on the o-line. Obviously I hope the Redskins can take advantage of some miscommunication up front, but hope it gets straightened out after the bye.




Redskins36
Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
1) Aside from the Indy game, the o-line has been one of the best in the league, even after Clady went down. Chris Clark has been playing well. There has been some moving around on the right side when Franklin got hurt, but I think they just had a really bad game last week in a loud environment. Adjustments will be made. I'm not concerned about it right now, I'll need to see another 1-2 games without Franklin. But in general, Peyton has had all day to throw for much of the season.

2) We have good tacklers, the problem has been whether a defender is in the vicinity of the play or not. For some reason, there's been a lot of guys with no one 5-10 yards of them, and that's when they get chunk yards. Some of that was due to the need to blitz a lot though with Von out. I didn't see any obvious examples of that last night except for one or two plays when Luck scrambled a lot.

3) Jason Witten gave us a hard time, but the LBs are good enough in coverage most of the time. And if they give up a play they often make a play later.

The key component for your offensive success, in my opinion, is how well RG3 can extend plays. No team has done anymore than mildy dent us with the running attack. And we've played Ray Rice, LeSean McCoy, McFadden, MJD, Trent Richardson, and other good backs. The Skins RBs are good but this is not an effective strategy against Denver. Nor is passing to the outside too much. But I will expect you to have middle zone routes open, quick slants, the seem route, etc, ESPECIALLY if RG3 can create extended time for himself. Denver played contain rather than all-out pass rush against Pryor and Vick, which I can expect as a template for an RG3, but Von is an X-factor that wasn't in those games.
Thanks for the detailed response!

Our secondary has the same 5-10 yard problem of not being near the wide receiver. The problem has gotten a little better in the last three games, but still an issue.
I didn't notice how many top RB's the Broncos have faced. I guess the only hope I can have is that Griffin is smarter in the read option (knowing when to handoff or keep it) and could open some

running lanes after a few successful keeps.




Redskins36
Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
I appreciate the post and welcome to the boards. Our oline is pretty banged up so we will see how that works. I expect that at some point we will end up with some ST points and we will be able to play mainly against the pass.

I am expecting 45- 24 to be the final.
I'm scared to death of Holiday in the return game. Our kickoffs have all been short (landing around the goalline) so maybe the thin air will help us keep it away from him a little bit better.



LSIGRAD09
Interesting match. I live in Arlington Va, so I see the Skins. They played pretty darn well against the Bears. RG III looked his best.
I guess the theme is now, whose defense is going to show up?



bronco30
yes their offense is looking much better last 2 weeks both running n passing...when they do the zone read I would have our DE or LB hit RG3 every time regardless if he hands it off & in passing downs we must stay in our pass rush lanes cant let him escape to many times...

on paper our offense should do very well vs their D but the big keys will be stopping Kerrigan n orakpo, no TO's n then hopefully we do better on short yardage...



Papa-pwn
Easy W I'd say. 42-7



xX-Bronco-Xx
Just from you summarizing your team it is eerily reminiscent of the type of team we had back when Shanahan was here.

I remember back when Shanny was here he did not have a great track record vs Peyton at the slightest. I'm hoping for a little more of that come this week off of our first loss.


DenverBlood
Originally Posted by BroncoSynapses View Post
Realize that how other teams play a familiar opponent doesn't mean much, it's about matchups. So each team will be different depending on the roster, scheme, etc. Just because CHI put up 40+ doesn't mean that it will be an easy day for us.

Some thought IND would be an easy win based on how they played at SD. That didn't turn out so well.

Just a friendly reminder.
Originally Posted by USMC_BRONCO View Post
This^^^

I completely agree with this comment. Lets not overlook an opponent. Like Manning said, "its not easy to win games in the NFL"
Sorry guys but I don't agree with you whatsoever. While I do agree you can't do comparative scoring you can make overall assessments based on season trends.

The season trend for the Skins defense is that it's aweful. My point was that it is so bad that even a cutler less bears offense managed 41 on the road.

I think that easily translated to 40+ for the #1 offense in the league at home. Book it.

Second as far as the team saying their are no easy wins. Duh. Of course the team shouldn't overlook anyone. But we say this every week. Me a fan completely overlooking the Skins has no impact on the game.

This game will be a cakewalk. My original prediction was 41-20 and I'm sticking to it.

If the Broncos can't beat this sort of opponent at home then they have no business being in the SB contender discussions.



BroncosB2B
If the Redskins can get their read option game going it could be a tough day for Denver's D. The Redskins have been getting better as RGIII has become more comfortable. I believe last week RGIII had his most designed runs of the season and was pretty effective. Remember last year, teams were being gashed with the Redskins' read option. Once defense began to commit to the read option, RGIII would play fake and hit those deep slants over the middle. The Broncos have shown to be weak against covering slant routes. Should be a good matchup though.


ELWAY421
The key is to make Rg3 a pocket passer this week, he is getting better because he is starting to run again & he struggled the first few weeks cause he was ineffective running the ball & was forced to be a pocket passer. Washingtons defense won't slow us down. If he does run, hit him & make him not want to run.


martz11
Skins are one of the bottom tackling teams I've seen so far this year. Combine that with DT leading the league in YAC, I see a huge day for him.


redneckrocker
Respect the 'Skins, like RGIII, and looking forward to seeing Shanahan back in Denver.

But IMO the Broncos come out hard and fast in this one. Coming of a loss and with a bye week next week, I just think the team is gonna come out more determined, much like they were in week 1 avenging last postseason.


A Chief's fan showed up, interestingly enough, and put in his two cents.




chiefsfan1981
Only way the redskins win is if they can run by either a run or read options and keep the clock moving amd control the time.of.possession and keep manning off the field. I think denver defense will struggle but can redskins defense slow down manning with the help of their offense keeping them fresh.




ELWAY421
Yep we need to make RG3 a pocket passer Sunday & when he runs pop him, make him not want to run. We did ok with keeping Terrell Pryor contained.

dizzolve

A few thoughts for this week
I saw the Redskin game and was impressed with WAS' offense and RG3. They appear to finally be getting some rhythm again. They have a real nice TE in Jordan Reed. I just picked this guy up on 2 of my fantasy teams for bye weeks. Morris and Helu arent bad at all. They run hard. And remember, this is a Shanahan running game.

Part of me expects an upset loss this week. Of course so much is yet to materialize, but obvious trends are, well -obvious. Manning might be hurt. Our passing defense is struggling. Before I really expand on this though I need for some developments to occur later in the week. I hope Manning is ok.

Anyway Wash is starting to put things together. And Denver is showing some signs of vulnerability. I'll revisit this post closer to game day once some things sort themselves out and hopefully I'll feel much more confident in our chances but right now I think this is an even game with the slight nod going to Denver since it's in Denver.

samparnell
Go Broncos!


Taos_Broncomaniac
Right...No Upsets at home!!!




The other thead was about Mike Shanahan' return to Mile-High stdium.

No matter your opinion of Shanny, the posts of the Broncos fans about seeing him again were interesting reads.

Some were quite touching, actually...some weren't.




Thread title "Mike Shanahan returns to Denver"




Bronco Yoda
For me it's still going to be more than a little strange seeing him on the other sideline. Hopefully the crowd gives him a warm ovation. I'm sure they will.

He's going to be more than a little motivated for this match up. RG3 looks have regained his mobility.

R8R H8R
They still have a crappy defense. Worse than ours, for sure. McCown darn near beat them today.


ZONA
He's been gone so long it's not the same. We're already on our 2nd HC since he's been gone. Not a big deal to me.


Agamemnon
Don't really care. Just hope we can bounce back and start playing like we are capable of.


ColoradoDarin
Need a good video tribute to him right before kickoff[/ I]




Kaylore
Yeah it's weird because he's been gone for almost four years so it's just not the same. Hopefully we can send him home with a loss. I was pulling for his team against the Bears. Good to see even Devin Hester's antics couldn't stop him this time. We'll see, though. The Redskins are going to be able to score a lot of points against us.


randerson1184
I'm sure Elway will have a heart-felt reunion with him in pre-game. Looking forward to a high scoring game. Von Miller better have a full tank of gas for this one. RGIII can scoot!


ColoradoDarin
For Shanahan, I bet he started game planning for this week the moment the schedule came out. I fear that, because even after 15 years he would make sure that we were beating the raiders. He is a vengeful man (and I mean that in the most complimentary way).


Kid A
He should get a warm reception (at the very least). But the time gap from him going to the NFC makes it feel different than Peyton and Indy. Certainly sets up to be a high scoring game again.


ColoradoDarin
Someone who had his QB throw at Al Davis 6 years after being fired doesn't want to desperately win this game?


Powderaddict
I'll stand and cheer for Shanahan. Before kickoff.

After kickoff, I want his team to lose BADLY.


Smiling Assassin27
and his team just might score 50 on us.


Cito PelonOTE]
Shanny will want this win badly, not just because it's against the Broncos, but because his team is 2-4 and most definitely needs to go on a winning streak. WASH is 0-2 in their Division so

far, they have to make up those losses elsewhere, and a win here is a good start to making up some ground on the NFC East leaders.


TonyR
I can't imagine the fans booing him. That would be ridiculous. Yes, there will probably be some idiots. But I would expect a positive reaction.


baja
Nobody will boo Shanny, he will get a loud ovation as he should. It was just time for him to go.


Smiling Assassin27
his team will be missing an important piece on d:

NFL345 ‏@NFL345 3m
Washington Redskins Safety Brandon Meriweather Suspended for Two Games for Repeat Violations of Player Safety Rules


2KBack
Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27 View Post
his team will be missing an important piece on d:

NFL345 ‏@NFL345 3m
Washington Redskins Safety Brandon Meriweather Suspended for Two Games for Repeat Violations of Player Safety Rules
Should have happened a long time ago....Always been a dirty player


Some references to Shanny weren't so nice, admittedly


mennonite
"Boo that rodent of unusual size!"

TonyR
RG3 is starting to come around and will give us some problems. Thankfully their defense is awful.


cmhargrove
I won't be at the game, but I would give Mike a standing o. The guy did his best for the Broncos and gave us a lot of wins and a lot of fun years. He's no GM, but I still love his tenure in Denver.

Anyone that boos Shanny is a dickhead
.



This comment about Shanny was my favorite.

Kaylore
I'll be pissed if they boo Shanahan....unless it's for the prices at his restaurant.

Redskins, let's make Shanny's homecoming a memorable one.

Beat the Broncos in Denver.

HTTR!
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  1. Jimbo's Avatar
    My friends who are Broncos fans seem worried that the Colts gave us a blueprint on how to handle Manning. Hope they're right but if we DON'T end up with 40 points, we lose. Of course, Broncos fans are saying the same thing. Sounds like another shootout in the Old West.

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