It's been 10 years........

[Sarge]

10 looooong years since the danny bought this team. Thought it'd be a good time for grades.

Overall record - 66 - 78

Three playoff appearances, two backing in and resulting in first round loses

Money spent - A - I think we can all agree that the danny has never been shy about spending money. Now, whether he has spent wisely is another topic

Player personel - D - He's had a few signings that have worked out, but there have been far too many Deion's, Smiths, Archellettas, etc

Coaching personal - D+- The only thing that has saved him from a complete F is bringing back Gibbs. Firing Norv before the end of the season with a winning record was classless, the Shotty goatrope was a travesty, Spuurier (No need for further comment) and the as of yet undetermined Zorn experiment get him the D. That and his continued reliance on Cerrato plus the picture of Bill Cowher on his desk says it all.

Player personnel - F -Need I say more? Far too much AL Davis type influence in this area

Intangibles - D- Granted, he's made the Skins one of the most sucessful teams in the league, money-wise. But what has that gotten the regular fan? Higher ticket prices, parking prices, lack of parking or parking increases, obstructed view seats. The list goes on and and. And the only thing we've gotten is year after year of 8-8.

Overall D-

Thoughts?

[Ax]

Thoughts?

I think it's too personal for you to give a completely fair assessment.

Record? Yeah, it sucks, as far as being a Redskin fan. But, it's middle of the road in NFL terms.
Grade C

Playoff Appearances? I'd rather have the three, than not. And backed in or not, who cares. And, ask the Cowboys if they wish they had a playoff win in the last 15 years, much less 10. And, hell no I'm not satisfied with it.
Grade C

Player Personnel? It's always the case, that the boo boos draw more attention than the ok's. It's taken some time, partly due to having supply different coaches needs with different types of players, (yes he's responsible, mostly) but the rosters we've had since Gibbs came back, are much, MUCH improved over what Snyder inherited.
Grade C+

Coaching Personnel? Snyder, and therefore, we fans, were forced to endure Norval ****ing Turner when the NFL dicked around with the sale of the team for so long. On one hand, I agree firing the worthless bastard when he did might not have been the wisest move he's ever made, but I wouldn't call it classless. Especially since I thought a firing squad, no blindfold, was more in order. Firing Marty was a mistake. Made more glaring by the performance of Ole ****-fer-brains. However, that sequence led to the return of Gibbs. Which I feel was equal to Lombardi coming here and changing the mindset of a bunch of losers. Time will tell if I'm right. So, where your F became a D because of Gibbs, my C- (Norval firing not as bad, IMO) jumps to a...
Grade B-

Intangibles? Ticket prices aren't the highest, and, he didn't build the stadium, or pick it's location, or create the parking issues, he inherited them. Maybe he could do more to fix it, maybe not.
Grade C+

Overall C+ And, it appears he's improving. We'll see.

[Hog Fever]

A friend of mine pointed that out to me earlier this week. Overall you can’t give Dan a passing grade at this point.

Whenever the subject of Dan comes up I’m always conflicted. On one hand I see a guy who is clearly wants the team to win. He’s also willing to put his money where his mouth is and has done so time after time. There aren’t many owners willing to do that year after year. I know it pains him to have the team not be successful. On the other hand there are just too many credible stories about his personal antics and too many professional blunders to give the guy a pass.

I knew it was time for Norv to go, but as Sarge said, the way it was handled was completely out of line. I loved the Schottenheimer hire and was very disappointed in the way that ended. The whole pay to watch training camp thing didn’t make him any friends. The Spurrier hire, which I thought was a questionable move, but one which I remained optimistic about until about mid way through his first season, blew up in his face. That doesn’t even take into account the teams’ numerous free agent signings, which impress the casual observer, but never seem to work out. The list goes on and on. I’ll stay away from the numerous first hand accounts we’ve all heard of how he has been an absolute putz to employees (including Norv) but I can’t completely discount that.

Honestly though, all would be forgiven if he could put together a winner. Jack Kent Cooke was an abrasive guy at times but the only thing that comes to mind when I think of the guy now is the nice old guy in the hounds tooth hat hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

The Gibbs re-hire has been the only thing that gave his stint as owner any real substance. Virtually every other move has ended poorly. The jury is out on Zorn. As fans we all hope for the best. I HATE having to expect the worst. I don’t do that in any other part of my life, but this team needs to prove it to me before I start giving them the benefit of the doubt again. I’m not going to make excuses for Dan or the team. Show me.

Grade: D (See me after class....)

[MikeSr619]

some teams would kill for the talent we have had come thru here and have here now.

cooley, portis, sean, laron, samuels...all great players.

[skinsfan44]

I agree with most of what you said here, Sarge.

Overall I will give Danny a D+

The reason I give Danny a D+ is his marketing and bringing back Joe Gibbs. He does knows how to make money.

If it were not for those 2 reasons he would get an F, so to me Danny has been close to a total failure as a owner.

[Sarge]

I think it's too personal for you to give a completely fair assessment.



Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".

Little story the old timers may remember. The day the sale of the team to danny was complete, the danny walked into Redskins Park and commenced firing people on the spot, even though those folks had received letters months before from the danny saying their jobs with the Skins were safe. He walks into the outer office where my Mom and another lady who worked for Mr Cooke had their desks and said to the other lady, "Get me a Coke". No "Hi", no "eff you" no nothing except "Get me a Coke". He goes into Mr Cookes office, stays a few minutes, then comes out and says to my Mom and the other lady "You're both through here. You have until five o'clock this afternoon to get your stuff out of your desks and be off the property. If you can't get your stuff out by five o'clock, you can come back at ten o'clock on Saturday and security will escort you in for 20 minutes to get your belongings"

This pretty much went on throughout the building for the next day or two.

From the couple of folks that my Mom still knows that worked there until recently, that is pretty much his demeanor full time

Not too long afterward, everyone that was fired formed a club known as FEDS "Fired Employees of Dan Snyder". Bobby Mitchell is the honorary president. Every year they get together at a banquet, have dinner and throw darts at the dans picture. They all have dan snyder voo doo dolls that they fill full of pins prior to every season. My suspicion is that is why even the great Joe Gibbs couldn't get this team back to glory

[brandies]

I pretty much agree. The positive on Snyder is I believe he wants a winning team, will pay for a winning team, and has learned alot. I feel the next 10 years will be far more positive.

[ntotoro]

D

If not for bringing back Joe Gibbs to at least take away some of the festering in Redskins Park, F------------

Can you have that many minuses?

[CHUBAKAH]

If I step back and look at the team through non colored glasses at what it is, a business, I have got to grade this team as an A+. At the end of the day that is really all it is, and the Dan has been very successful at making money as an owner.

As for my Redskins fan opinion:

Record? It sucks pretty bad, but at least I am not a Lion fan
Grade C

Playoff Appearances? Sure I’d love to have been in a lot more, but as bad as we have been in our division over all, if we were in the Western division, a lot of those years we would have been at the top of our division. The NFC east as a rule is pretty good.
Grade D+

Player Personnel? I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, and don’t have the time to type up what I really think. I’d just say that with “Most” of the signings over the years, we as fans were more times then not excited but this guy and that guy. Outside of Deon, I think most fans were. I’ve got to at least give him a B for effort.
Grade B

Coaching Personnel? Gibbs was a good move, or at least I thought it was. I also thought the hiring of Marty was a good move. Outside of that not too impressed by the moves, and I don’t have much love for Vinny as we speak.
Grade C

Intangibles? I have to agree with AX in this topic. Build us a new stadium though, cuz quite frankly the one we have now blows, and the Cowboys our out shinning us in this department HUGE.
Grade C+

Overall I give the team a C+ as a fan.

My business side has to give them an A+, at the end of the day it’s all about money, and they have what looks like plenty.

[Yusuf06]

I'm somewhere between you guys. I'd rate him somewhere close to the middle of the pack if we'd been close to .500 in the regular season with say a couple of more playoff appearances split about evenly between wins and losses.

As it stands, a .460 winning pct puts us near the top end of being mediocre, thus I have to give him a D. As Sarge says, Danny gets credit for trying but more than offsets his willingness to spend with a lack of knowledge about what to spend his $$$ on **cough** OL/DL **cough, cough** Sure, we've made a concerted effort to upgrade the DL this offseason, but why did it take a decade to figure out that the game is won or lost in the trenches? :furious2:

FWIW Don Banks agrees with my assessment and ranks us 23rd (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/06/01/decade/3.html) for the decade...not that many Skins fans put much stock in any media types. For the record though, he ranks Dallas as 20th. Probably about right in both cases.

Even more damning is that over the course of a decade, Snyder has yet to set a personality for who this team is whether we're winning or losing. If you look at the best teams in the league (Steelers, Patsies, Dolts etc.) they have all been built around being a certain type of team. The Steelers pride themselves on being hard-nosed and (mostly) running the ball, The Patsies are much like Gibbs' Redskins-smarter, better coached and will outhustle and outwork you. The Redskins under Snyder? :whoknows: We've gone from Martyball to the Fun-N-Gun and about everything else in between.

In short, as I've said many times, we won't achieve sustained success until Snyder hires someone competent to run the football operations and steps away. Until then, I'll keep my :anonymous: handy.

[MikeSr619]

thats a good point Yusuf, we have no real identity to hang our hat on. We WERE hard nosed but then Spurrier came in and killed that. Marty tried to bring us back to it but it didnt seem to last.

What is the closest thing to a label you can think of for this team?

[Yusuf06]

Player Personnel? I’ve only had one cup of coffee this morning, and don’t have the time to type up what I really think. I’d just say that with “Most” of the signings over the years, we as fans were more times then not excited but this guy and that guy. Outside of Deon, I think most fans were. I’ve got to at least give him a B for effort.
Grade B

Coaching Personnel? Gibbs was a good move, or at least I thought it was. I also thought the hiring of Marty was a good move. Outside of that not too impressed by the moves, and I don’t have much love for Vinny as we speak.
Grade C
This is a large part of the problem Chewie. The lack of focus I mentioned earlier about who the team is also extends to player personnel moves. As has often been said, Snyder seems to have a "fantasy football" mentality rather than comprehensively assessing what personnel we have and what we're trying to build/maintain overall. In other words, there simply hasn't been a strategic view of personnel acqusition during Snyder's tenure here. And while Casserly was equally inept, at the very least he understood what he was trying to build-he just did a lousy job of selecting the players to do it with.

[Yusuf06]

thats a good point Yusuf, we have no real identity to hang our hat on. We WERE hard nosed but then Spurrier came in and killed that. Marty tried to bring us back to it but it didnt seem to last.

What is the closest thing to a label you can think of for this team?
Blunderbusses maybe. :)

[MikeSr619]

Blunderbusses maybe. :)

:moon:

I've been waiting to use that emote..haahaha


I love my Skins so I dont even acknowledge your blunderbus comment. lol

[Ax]

I know that we can't, but if we could, I think Snyder should be split into two categories, Before Gibbs, and Since Gibbs. As I said earlier, I think Snyder is improving, and I believe Gibbs return was the beginning of that process.

So, that said, grading the team starting with Gibbs return, my guess is he'd get substantially better grades.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

[Chris]

Many think that Snyder could eventually grow into a successful hands-on owner. But to use a term that is popular when discussing another Redskin, I just don't think that Daniel Snyder has 'it'.

I view him as Jerry Jones without the people skills or Bill Bidwell with money. If the Washington Redskins are to eventually become a successful franchise again under Snyder, it will be despite him not because of him.

D+

[Lanky Livingston]

Backing into the playoffs?? Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the term, but I thought that meant you lost your last few games, but still made the playoffs. Both of our recent playoff runs were not this way - 2005 we had to win 5-straight to make the playoffs and did on the back of a powerful run-game. Even won a playoff game. In 2007 we had to win 4-straight, including a thrashing of the Cowgirls, limiting them to 1-yard rushing.

[Hog Fever]

I know that we can't, but if we could, I think Snyder should be split into two categories, Before Gibbs, and Since Gibbs. As I said earlier, I think Snyder is improving, and I believe Gibbs return was the beginning of that process.

So, that said, grading the team starting with Gibbs return, my guess is he'd get substantially better grades.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

I think that’s fair.

This season, and how things end up, will tell us a lot about where Dan is as an owner. Everything hinges on the play on the field of course but the players on that field, the pseudo GM, and the coach running the show is something he has to directly take the credit or blame for. That’s the down side of being so involved with the process, much like Jerry Jones down in Dallas, though Jerry is more up front about it. You KNOW he’s involved in personnel decisions because he tells you he is.

If things go well Dan’s decisions become easy; Zorn stays, Vinny stays, Campbell stays and things start looking up. If Zorn/Campbell fails to get it done this season (I’m talking playoffs) how will Dan react? Will he give the situation more time? Will he trade away the draft for a new QB? Will Zorn be fired? Will Vinny remain in his current role? The answers to those questions will tell us a lot more about where Dan is than anything. Would any of us be surprised if his reactions were short sighted or if he decided just to throw money at the problem in one way or another? Me neither. We shall see.

[beamish]

Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".

Little story the old timers may remember. The day the sale of the team to danny was complete, the danny walked into Redskins Park and commenced firing people on the spot, even though those folks had received letters months before from the danny saying their jobs with the Skins were safe. He walks into the outer office where my Mom and another lady who worked for Mr Cooke had their desks and said to the other lady, "Get me a Coke". No "Hi", no "eff you" no nothing except "Get me a Coke". He goes into Mr Cookes office, stays a few minutes, then comes out and says to my Mom and the other lady "You're both through here. You have until five o'clock this afternoon to get your stuff out of your desks and be off the property. If you can't get your stuff out by five o'clock, you can come back at ten o'clock on Saturday and security will escort you in for 20 minutes to get your belongings"

This pretty much went on throughout the building for the next day or two.

From the couple of folks that my Mom still knows that worked there until recently, that is pretty much his demeanor full time

Not too long afterward, everyone that was fired formed a club known as FEDS "Fired Employees of Dan Snyder". Bobby Mitchell is the honorary president. Every year they get together at a banquet, have dinner and throw darts at the dans picture. They all have dan snyder voo doo dolls that they fill full of pins prior to every season. My suspicion is that is why even the great Joe Gibbs couldn't get this team back to glory

dayumn! i've always heard he was a douche, but i've never known specifically why. i've always given him the benefit of the doubt, but your post really hits home. the true measure of a man is how he treats those who he thinks can do him absolutely no good.

[ntotoro]

Hey, I didn't even mention the douche bag factor, for which he gets an "A+".

My Father and another co-worker used to cut Jay Brunetti's hair. Guy worked himself up to Equipment Manager, starting by mowing lawns. He pretty much echoes the same story as you.

[Sarge]

dayumn! i've always heard he was a douche, but i've never known specifically why. i've always given him the benefit of the doubt, but your post really hits home. the true measure of a man is how he treats those who he thinks can do him absolutely no good.

Now you know...the rest of the story

My Father and another co-worker used to cut Jay Brunetti's hair. Guy worked himself up to Equipment Manager, starting by mowing lawns. He pretty much echoes the same story as you.

You know what they say, when you hear the same story twice, it's no longer a rumor:secret:

I met Jay a few times, always liked the guy. He got let go a few years back too, didn't he?

[ntotoro]

You know what they say, when you hear the same story twice, it's no longer a rumor:secret:

I met Jay a few times, always liked the guy. He got let go a few years back too, didn't he?

Yeah, he's the Equipment Manager for the Texans now. My Dad tells me he's much happier, from the times he has been back here and talked about it... :)

[Sarge]

Yeah, he's the Equipment Manager for the Texans now. My Dad tells me he's much happier, from the times he has been back here and talked about it... :)

Ahh, followed Charlie did he? That's cool. Most all former employees are much happier away from the danny. I'm glad things worked out for him.

[Bulldog's Twin]

Memo from the real world.

A lot of the people in the media limelight including businessmen and sports owners are a-holes.

In business I have heard horror stories from people that worked for industry 'heroes' like Jack Welch at GE and the 'family' Marriott at Marriott Hotels.

That said, these executives have been mostly successful during their careers.

My guess is if Snyder knew more about football and made better hiring decisions in the front office and on occasion on the football field, his 'private' side would be anedoctal but wouldn't matter to the average fan on Sundays.

It's only because the team has flagged since he took over from the lofty heights that fans look at the personal side of things.

Ironic, eh? :)

[Yusuf06]

Memo from the real world.

A lot of the people in the media limelight including businessmen and sports owners are a-holes.

In business I have heard horror stories from people that worked for industry 'heroes' like Jack Welch at GE and the 'family' Marriott at Marriott Hotels.

That said, these executives have been mostly successful during their careers.

My guess is if Snyder knew more about football and made better hiring decisions in the front office and on occasion on the football field, his 'private' side would be anedoctal but wouldn't matter to the average fan on Sundays.

It's only because the team has flagged since he took over from the lofty heights that fans look at the personal side of things.

Ironic, eh? :)
Ironic? Nah. It still boils down to the one thing that everyone from the Snyderatto apologists to the most rabid Snyderatto haters and everything in between can agree on, i.e. when Danny finally consistently puts a quality product on the field, the "hating" will cease. Until then, he'll have to be satisfied to be known as a douche because he's sure as hell not going to erase that perception with his personality alone. :square:

[Pravda]

I've said this repeatedly over the last five years that I've known some of you--and in sum, I feel pretty much exactly the same as Chewy.

Professional sports in this day and age are not about feel good stories of cultivating life-long relationships or stated another way cultivatily loyalty within the franchise organization. And certainly not loyalty at the cost of lost revenue.

The ethos that rules the rest of the corporate world is in full force in the NFL--

The Redskins are a commodity, in many ways very similar to other commodoties--what separates the Redskins, like other professional franchises, is the fundamentally irrational devotion that people have to that commodity and their desire to consume more and more of it. This irrationality is highlighted by the fact that the commodity provides nothing directly of any material value (and arguably of other articulable value) to the consumers aside from some entertainment for those who attend games or watch them on television.

This is what makes sports teams unique: they prey on geographic loyalty as a source for achieving association and interest in the product.

And if the scope of our assessment is on how well Dan Snyder has capitalized and taken advantage of his consumer base, he absolutely gets an A+.

The guys generates huge revenues and (likely) profits year in year out irrespective of the quality of the product that's being offered--which begs whether the product that consumers are buying is quality football or just football.

Perhaps what the Redskins provide as the product is a sense of belonging and a sense of feeling part of the team--which is even stranger.

Why else at core do you think that whole concept of 12th man is part of professional football? Foster a sense of unity and belonging among the fan base so that they consume more of your product in the form of ticket sales, merchandise, etc. Perhaps even make membership in the club (i.e., the season ticket holder list) seem difficult, and therefore more desirable--hence the "20 year" waiting list.

All of these things are devices to foster support among and revenue from fans.

And all of them are things that Snyder has excelled at.

As to the on the field issues, why should Snyder or any other owner change the performance of the underlying product if the mediocre product is so financially successful?

[servumtuum]

Stunning, Pravda, simply stunning! It's not a "warm fuzzy" type of post but I must say I admire the absolute clarity of your description because I think you may have hit on an underlying emotional discomfort Skins fans have with Snyder-to him it's about business, pure and simple, but to the fans, it's about family.

[Neophyte]

As to the on the field issues, why should Snyder or any other owner change the performance of the underlying product if the mediocre product is so financially successful?

Why? Because unlike most other businesses, pro sports franchises have a second marker for success.

Championships.

Snyder can out earn every single owner in the league every year but without those Championships he is little better than the Bidwells or the Browns as an owner goes. Not to mention that with a team as lucrative as the Skins are today it can only get better with a Lombardi or two won under Dan's tenure as the owner.

Besides, he could really do a lot better financially if mediocre was the goal. Consider how much more he could put to the bottom line without the huge coaches payroll he had under Gibbs II or monster Free Agent contracts that seem a staple here every year, keeping this team right against the salary cap. In fact, I think you could argue that if just making money is the Dan's sole motivation, he is failing to maximize his profits quite seriously.

[brandies]

Why? Because unlike most other businesses, pro sports franchises have a second marker for success.

Championships.

Snyder can out earn every single owner in the league every year but without those Championships he is little better than the Bidwells or the Browns as an owner goes. Not to mention that with a team as lucrative as the Skins are today it can only get better with a Lombardi or two won under Dan's tenure as the owner.

Besides, he could really do a lot better financially if mediocre was the goal. consider how much more he could put to the bottom line without the huge coaches payroll he had under Gibbs II or monster Free Agent contracts that seem a staple here every year, keeping this team right against the salary cap. In fact, I think you could argue that if just making money is the Dan's sole motivation, he is failing to maximize his profits quite seriously.

I totally agree. Besides, how long will people keep spending if the product is dificient? If in 10 years from now, we are stuck in the same place, I see people losing interest.

[CHUBAKAH]

I totally agree. Besides, how long will people keep spending if the product is dificient? If in 10 years from now, we are stuck in the same place, I see people losing interest.
I think if that were true, the Redskins would have been losing money every year he has been the owner.

[Sarge]

As to the on the field issues, why should Snyder or any other owner change the performance of the underlying product if the mediocre product is so financially successful?

Ding, ding, ding

Snyder has always stated that he wants to win, but he wants to make money even more.

I mean hell, even the Cardinals have sprung up once and gone to the Super Bowl since danny bought the team

[MikeSr619]

Ding, ding, ding

Snyder has always stated that he wants to win, but he wants to make money even more.

I mean hell, even the Cardinals have sprung up once and gone to the Super Bowl since danny bought the team

comparing the NFC West with the NFC East is unfair. They got in with a 9-7 record. And once you are in the playoffs what you do is up to you.

They beat Carolina (good job) and beat Philly (who we swept).

Danny wants to win..we all know that. But he needs to win from the top of the office down not just with big name players.

[Pravda]

Why? Because unlike most other businesses, pro sports franchises have a second marker for success.

Championships.

Snyder can out earn every single owner in the league every year but without those Championships he is little better than the Bidwells or the Browns as an owner goes. Not to mention that with a team as lucrative as the Skins are today it can only get better with a Lombardi or two won under Dan's tenure as the owner.

Besides, he could really do a lot better financially if mediocre was the goal. Consider how much more he could put to the bottom line without the huge coaches payroll he had under Gibbs II or monster Free Agent contracts that seem a staple here every year, keeping this team right against the salary cap. In fact, I think you could argue that if just making money is the Dan's sole motivation, he is failing to maximize his profits quite seriously.
I think that's really the big whole in my argument, right--

That if the team succeeds and wins a Super Bowl, then there's likely to be even more revenue--thus, Snyder has a very strong incentive, even if he is the financial results guy I've portrayed him to be, to make the Redskins as successful on the field as possible.

And sure, I guess that's true.

My counterpoint to that is that one way of looking at how one will take any action is to measure its consequences or ramifications. A corrolary to that is that a rational person will, when given the choice of two options, generally pick the option that either has the better outcome (or has the less pernicious negative outcome). Now what happens if there are no negative implications when one chooses the inferior of the two options? Doesn't the whole incentive for measuring consequences of the action and choosing the better of the two options fall away?

And that's where this comes back to Dan Snyder and the Redskins.

What have been the implications of 10 years of mediocrity, punctuated with some great wins that I'll remember for the rest of my life (e.g., 14-13)?

Have fans deserted the team? Have revenues declined?

Hell no! :) If anything revenues and profits have increased dramatically or at least perceptably.

What I'm getting at is that by fans not reacting to poor or mediocre performance on the field in diminished appetite for Redskins tickets and paraphanelia (and let's be honest here, mediocrity or pedestrian results are not acceptable in Washington--we need and expect a perennial winner), the fans lose their economic power to create a strong financial incentive to force the team's success.

And in the process, Snyder is unburdened of the mandate to produce a winner or face the consequences.

In that enviroment of skewed incentives, it becomes much easier to be complacent and/or maintain the status quo of mediocrity.

How many of us would, if we were presented with roughly the same salary irrespective of whether we worked our tail off or worked 10-3, work our tail off? Sure, some of us would work our tails off out of personal pride, but the more logical answer would be to work to 10-3 and focus our energies, whether in recreation or moonlighting business interests elsewhere.