Mike Williams, what do you think? [Archive]

HOF44

07-17-09, 10:50 PM

I think he'll have a really hard time being a full time player this season. Losing all that weight has had to have been hard on his body in the short term. If they are not careful and push him back to fast I'd fear an injury.

If on the other hand he is brought back slowly, keeps the weight off, and is allowed to build up stamina and strength gradually, by next season we could have a real find.

beamish

07-17-09, 10:52 PM

3-5-4 still sounds like too much bulk to me, especially if it's soft and jiggling all over the place. lets see how he holds up in the heat of training camp. hope he turns out to be comeback player of the yr...

Hog Fever

07-17-09, 11:17 PM

It would be a great story for sure and it would be nice for the team to have some good luck for a change. He simply fell into our lap. Of course he needs to make the team first, but even if he's on the team for depth, I'll take it.

As you guys mentioned 354 is probably too big to stand up to a whole season worth of play without some kind of injury issues. He's what, 6'7"? I don't think we can have him play guard at that height, but what do I know. On the plus side having not played in several years he doesn't have the same NFL wear and tear as a guy his age should have. If he finishes up training camp at say...320 or so we may be in business. A full off season in a weight and nutrition program and he's right where he needs to be again, but I'm getting ahead of myself here.

I'm not counting on him making the team but I'll definitely be paying attention when he hits the field this pre-season. I think just about everyone is pulling for the guy.

Neophyte

07-18-09, 01:36 AM

He apparently played at 360 right out of college so maybe 354 isn't too much for him. Guess we will see, huh?

LegionOfDoom

07-18-09, 01:51 AM

Being at 350 is perfect for Williams...from the reports I heard we have goten ourselves a steal with him. He has been determined to show the naysayers and has a giant chip on his shoulder. He will be the guard that portis will follow into the endzone!

Chris

07-18-09, 11:39 AM

I'm not worried about the weight if he's 350ish @ 6'6. Samuels is 6'5 and 315?

Williams is 29 with three less years of NFL wear and tear than his contemporaries. Training camp will tell if he's ready and able to pick it up again. His weight won't be the determining factor, his conditioning and mental toughness will.

This is a no lose situation for the Skins and that's a nice spot to be in.

MR Historian

07-18-09, 06:25 PM

The Redskins want him to play at around 350. The word on him is that despite the excess weight, he has quick feet and is quite versatile.

Walking Deadman

07-19-09, 12:24 AM

beamish

07-19-09, 08:48 AM

you're on the same page with coach buges, deadman! he said this is as deep as they've been since his second stint here.

Walking Deadman

07-19-09, 09:34 AM

What's also good is that the Skins have a few players that can play multiple spots.

Heyer has played both RT and LT
Will Montgomery has started at center and guard
Jeremy Bridges has started at guard and tackle
Rinehart can play both guard positions and tackle.

Jimbo

07-19-09, 03:28 PM

I'm rooting for the guy because it IS a great story and who doesn't want a steal? I still think he has a long way to go to prove himself in Training Camp and Preseason. If he doesn't make it, we don't really lose anything but we'll all still be disappointed because there was no "fairy-tale" ending.

Bulldog's Twin

07-19-09, 07:38 PM

Let's be realistic about Williams.

He never showed in 4 NFL seasons when he was a younger man that he had the focus and consistency to become more than a mediocre player in the league.

He basically hung around until the Bills were ready to admit they had 'blown' the pick.

If Williams now is a more focused man who wants to return and make a mark on the NFL, you would have to think that being out of the game for 3 years and having to lose 100 pounds in under a year are factors that work against him.

It would be great if Williams comes in and makes the team and contributes as a veteran working for a near minimum deal, but the realist in me doubts we are going to see him playing meaningful minutes for this team in crunch time in November and December against the NFC East.

Pravda

07-19-09, 07:45 PM

To some degree it's a sad state of affairs that we may need to rely on a bust, formerly obese lineman to be the catalyst in taking our offensive line to the next level--

If anything, I'd say the fact that we're having this conversation is confirmation enough that the Redskins' casual approach to lineman drafting and hoping to find a diamond in the rough may not be the best approach in building a strong offensive line (or team, for that matter).

Loved to be proven wrong on this and have to agree with Chris (it's been too long, my friend :)!) that we're in a no lose situation with him--but I'm checking my optimism a bit.

Our offensive line is still pretty old and Stephen Heyer is not the second coming of a member of the Hogs IMO.

We shall see...

Bulldog's Twin

07-20-09, 05:45 PM

Neophyte

07-20-09, 05:52 PM

It would be great if Williams comes in and makes the team and contributes as a veteran working for a near minimum deal, but the realist in me doubts we are going to see him playing meaningful minutes for this team in crunch time in November and December against the NFC East.

Not that I am saying Williams is the answer but if not him, then who? I don't see Heyer as anything more now than a great feel good story who will make a decent backup off the bench. And after Heyer, I don't see anyone on this squad capable of delivering anything serious.

In short, I see more depth than in years past but, at least at RT, I don't see even Jansen's recent ability at the starter spot unless Williams really does step up (something I am hardly counting on but really hoping for).

Bulldog's Twin

07-20-09, 06:02 PM

The truth is we haven't seen enough of Heyer strictly at RT to know for sure what the team has.

Heyer played there in the playoff run in 2007. He entered the season as the starter and then somehow through a zen process that was never clearly explained to me lost his job after ONE week and was replaced for the rest of the season by a 33 year old player the Head Coach had dinged in the preseason for being slow off the ball in pass protection.

Then we saw Heyer later in the season playing out of position at LEFT tackle when Chris Samuels was hurt, and the returns there were not very good.

But let's consider for a moment what Jon Jansen would have looked like at LT after playing his career at RT. Even if this move had been made 3-4 years ago when Jansen was still an effective player at RT he would have faced an uphill battle playing the left side.

For a raw player like Heyer that was just becoming comfortable at his natural position on the other side, the move to LT set him back.

Neophyte

07-20-09, 06:21 PM

I thought Heyer was a LT in college that the Skins were using as a switch hitting backup. Am I wrong in that and he was a RT in college?

Chris

07-20-09, 06:27 PM

During his final three seasons at Maryland he started every game at left tackle.

Pravda

07-20-09, 08:10 PM

well, it was obvious after 2008 that BOTH lines needed an overhaul.

the Redskins were successful in bringing in one pro bowl DL in Haynesworth and 2 future starters in Orakpo and Jarmon at DE.

not enough draft picks and cap room for a re-do on the other side of the ball.

Dockery makes the OL better. Thomas if healthy makes the OL better. Bridges as a backup at OG makes the OL better.

But there was no sigature move.

That will have to wait until 2010.
Was it just as obvious in 2008, or has it been pretty obvious for at least four to five years--the addition of Casey Rabach to replace Cory Raymer was not exactly the definitive move to fundamentally overhaul an aging line.

Nor was keeping Thomas, Samuels and Jansen as the core of the line--the selection of wide receivers (unproductive wide receivers at that in Thomas and Kelly, with a bum knee to boot) instead of additions at the OL was a bit of a head scratcher for our 2008 draft.

And sure, Thomas and Kelly may break out in 2009, but won't that depend on the success of the OL giving Campbell, a QB that's not known for making super-quick decisions, enough time to make good throws?

We aren't facing new problems here as the OL is something that has dogged us for years--

But are Samuels, Thomas, Rabach and Dockery--all guys that are over thirty or very close to it, really a long term answer?

I'm not questioning the Haynesworth/Orakpo moves per se, but the OL needs more help than Heyer and a (formerly?) obese potential bust can give, I think.

Again, hope I'm wrong on this...

Redskins14to13

07-21-09, 12:10 AM

He's 354 right now according to Redskins.com.

Is it just me or does it look like the Redskins actually have a decent amount of depth on the the O-line this year?

Starters (as of today): Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas, Heyer

Look at their possible back-ups: Heyer/Clark, Bridges/Rinehart, Montgomery, Bridges/Rinehart, Mike Williams

and that doesn't take in consideration some of the other players fighting for a roster spot.

I wouldn't say those guys are decent. Samuels is arguably the best lineman we have and hes coming off an injury and over 30. Thomas gets hurt too much and Heyer has shown some good flashes but has yet to prove he is consistent starting material. And those are all the starters! Mike Williams is still a huge question mark but I'm praying he will be the diamond in the rough we so badly need. And hopefully Dock can step it up for us this year.

Aston Gambino

07-21-09, 12:28 AM

If anything, I'd say the fact that we're having this conversation is confirmation enough that the Redskins' casual approach to lineman drafting and hoping to find a diamond in the rough may not be the best approach in building a strong offensive line (or team, for that matter). Spot on. Couldn't agree more.

I see Williams like a lottery ticket. A shiny sign of potential, easy to get excited about, but realistically, nothing we should ever have to depend on.

I can only imagine the coaches saw more potential in him than Jansen, which doesn't say much for Williams. Or Jansen, for that matter, but that kind of goes without saying.

Pre-season should give us a pretty good clue. If he's getting dominated by other teams 2nd and 3rd teams, he's still far away from being able to give us serious value.

beamish

07-24-09, 08:27 AM

looks like big mike was playing at 375:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=60148&draftyear=2002&genpos=OT

KDawg

07-24-09, 04:37 PM

Mike Williams, should he stay where he needs to be weight-wise, will be a HUGE asset to the team. In my opinion if he does what needs to be done he's going to supplant Heyer as our starting RT. He'll be an absolute mauler in the run game and a decent pass protector.

Either way, though, we'll probably need to keep Portis in to block/chip the outside rush. None of our tackles are really going to be all that quick. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. With Williams weight loss, he should be okay on the edge...

I'm really looking forward to seeing that guy play again.

Bulldog's Twin

07-24-09, 10:59 PM

I really don't think it is 'arguable' that Chris Samuels is the team's best lineman and has been for most if not all of the 2000s.

I also don't think the nature of his injury (upper arm) is going to slow him so that his return to 'form' in 2009 is in question.

At this point I would be more concerned with the return of Randy Thomas at RG. His injury was far more serious and follows on injuries that were themselves serious.

I continue to maintain that Jeremy Bridges is on the team as an insurance policy at RG as much as a realistic candidate to be the RT.

I would not be surprised to see Bridges in the regular lineup during the season at some point.

Walking Deadman

07-25-09, 08:50 PM

Update: Vinny was on Redskins Nation on Thursday. Says Williams is now 337?

337?

Un-believeable.......he wasn't that light in college (350's)

E-Dog Night

07-26-09, 01:44 AM

I often have fantastical ideas about the Redskins. Going 19-0, beating the Cowboys by a score of 75-0, that sort of thing.

My latest flight of fancy involves Mike Williams obtaining the pass blocking skill of Anthony Munoz, the quickness and mobility of Larry Allen, and the straight up nastiness of Joe Jacoby.

Will that happen? Uh,no.

BUT - he could be a good pro in the NFL. It's so hard to say though. Does he really have that angry chip on his shoulder? I don't see that when I've watched his recent interviews. He seems a little happy-go-lucky, just glad to be here.

I'm hoping for a miracle but certainly not expecting one.

And this smiley is great. :drummer:

HapHaszard

07-26-09, 07:25 PM

Update: Vinny was on Redskins Nation on Thursday. Says Williams is now 337?

337?

Un-believeable.......he wasn't that light in college (350's)

Thats totally amazing knowing where he started. At 337 he should be much quicker and lighter on his feet, no pun intended. The question is has he lost strength dropping so much weight?

Walking Deadman

07-27-09, 12:19 AM

Thats totally amazing knowing where he started. At 337 he should be much quicker and lighter on his feet, no pun intended. The question is has he lost strength dropping so much weight?

That was a question posed to Vinny by Larry on Redskins Nation. Vinny stated that Williams had tried to drop weight like this before and lost strength b/c he focused only on the weight loss.

Vinny said this time he worked with the trainers and improved upon the strength while losing the weight.

It will be interesting to watch since the Skins felt Williams had good feet at 410lbs, he just didn't have the endurance to play in a full season.

I'm also curious about the strength issue Hap..... especially how he does his blocking. When he was bigger, he could maul guys. Just get a hold of them and get in their way and that was it. Now he will be able to get to them and drive them, but he'll have to adapt to the lighter weight (for example Bull Rushers will be bale to drive him more than when he was 350 or 370).

It will be an interesting learning process.

Aston Gambino

07-27-09, 11:52 AM

337? Unbelievable. You can't question the man's motivation any more, that's for sure.

He's probably much healthier and (hopefully) less injury-prone as well.

And if this whole football thing works out, I think he could make a career selling his diet and workout regimen.

Walking Deadman

07-27-09, 07:25 PM

Update: Mike Williams was on Redskins Nation today.

Said he actually needed to slow the weight loss down, he was losing too much.
Currently: 342lbs.

Williams also addressed the strength issue saying that he lost some muscle mass but it was expected and very little was lost (I think he said about 3% of the weight loss was muscle mass).

He went from a size 52 to size 42.....wow.

Larry Michael asked him how the offense was going to be this year. MW: Nasty and that the guys he worked with in Arizona (Samuels, Heyer, Dockery) are hungry.

Chris

08-05-09, 11:25 AM

Jason Reid: Pulling No Punches :whip:

Quick Take on Mike Williams
I know he's the feel-good story of training camp, but it has been painful to watch tackle Mike Williams in pass protection since camp opened, and I really don't expect him to improve much today or anytime soon.

His long layoff from football (he last played in a regular season game in 2005) and rapid weight loss have not been a good combination. It seems as if every defensive end in camp has beaten him regularly while Williams struggles to relearn proper footwork. He's going to need a lot of time in the weight room to rebuild strength, and you don't need to be a player, scout or coach to know he doesn't belong on a football field right now in a competitive environment.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/quick-take-on-mike-williams.html

brandies

08-05-09, 11:36 AM

Would someone like him be practice squad eligible. It sounds like he will need a year of practice and weight lifting to get back to make a good effort.

Neophyte

08-05-09, 11:45 AM

I can't help but wonder if folks won't be missing Jansen by mid-season or hating our draft class if Orakpo is anything short of Defensive Rookie of the Year...

China

08-05-09, 01:35 PM

I can't help but wonder if folks won't be missing Jansen by mid-season or hating our draft class if Orakpo is anything short of Defensive Rookie of the Year...

There will always be those that are never satisfied. I think we were already missing Jansen the past couple of years (that is, missing the old Jansen, compared to what we had recently).

Pravda

08-05-09, 08:53 PM

Jason Reid: Pulling No Punches :whip:

Quick Take on Mike Williams
Yikes!

Certainly reduces my expectations.

Neophyte

08-05-09, 11:46 PM

Yikes!

Certainly reduces my expectations.

Of Williams or Reid? :cool4:

Sarge

08-06-09, 06:33 AM

Sounds like WIlliams, despite his tremendous effort, is gonna need a year to get back his football/pass protecting mojo

Anne The Fan

08-06-09, 12:03 PM

Post deleted.

brandies

08-06-09, 12:06 PM

Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that he’s eligible for the practice squad. I’ve linked the most recent discussion of eligibility that I could find and have quoted what is purported to be the relevant CBA language. (I couldn’t link the CBA itself; it crashed my computer every time I tried to access it.)

http://ozoneshadow.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/practice-squad-eligibility/

As far as I know, Williams was on the Bills’ active roster for four seasons before being cut.

Thanks for the information. Maybe they should hire him as a weight loss expert and have him lift weights and work on technique for a year.

Bulldog's Twin

08-06-09, 01:40 PM

Williams is a feel good story as a guide for life. I just don't think he is going to return to the NFL and be an impact player.

Part of it is simply looking at where he was in his prime earlier in the decade.

He was never a top flight performer at this level.
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